To think was a a bit wrong.

[Canthisonebeused]

Not sure why but this doesn't sit right with me, what are others thoughts. It's not a big deal but did bother me a bit.

7 and 8 year old girls doing handstands and cartwheels in the playground at school. Boys being silly laughing at their pants and did not die down after being told not to by playground staff. Therefore girls are sent in to put PE shorts on under their dresses.

I just think they are little girls FFS who care if their pants are showing and the boys should have been delt with. I just don't think it's a good message to sent to girls.

I work in a playground and regularly remind children that if they wear skirts with shorts underneath they can do cartwheels etc. If they wear a skirt without shorts underneath they cannot. I certainly do not want to see their underwear and I assume no one else does either.

As a child of the 70s, we all did handstands, etc and didn't cover our knickers.

I too was a child of the 70's and well remember receiving an Order Mark from a teacher for doing handstands in the playground with friends (wearing a skirt). I never did it again.

saying females should modify their attire in order to modify the behaviour of males

I'm not a male and I don't want to see girls' knickers when they do handstands/cartwheels/toss-ups; it's nothing to do with modifying their behaviour in order to modify the behaviour of males . -I don't want to see boys' underwear either--.

I discussed this at school pick up today, without exception everyone said it was the boys behaviour that should be dealt with. Not one Person thought the girls should be covering up or changing their behaviour.

tabby if you worked at my child's school and told her she couldn't do cartwheels etc unless she had shorts on there would be hell to pay.

For the record the teachers agreed it was the boys behaviour that needed to be dealt with.

We cannot allow this victim blaming culture to continue.

Interestingly my ds4 was crouching down and crawling round in the playground today, when he does this you can see his pants. Not one Person said anything, ditto the girls hanging upside down from the trim track etc, yes pants were flashed and it was just a non issue as it should be.

If you don't want to see their underwear tabby then don't look. And what is the reason you don't want to see their underwear?

It's just some pants. What's the big deal?

I totally agree with 5mad and the OP.

Tabby1963 I think everyone on this thread would say they don't particularly want to see young girls' knickers (or boys' pants), unless they have some rather dubious tendencies of course. However, if they are rendered visible through playing or exercise then it's hardly a big deal. We're talking 7/8 year old girls here; it's just another item of clothing.

Also I agree with a pp, if you were working at our school and you espoused those attitudes there'd be raised eyebrows at the very least.

Can someone please confirm that they are saying females should modify their attire in order to modify the behaviour of males? Because that is what is appears to boil down to

You are showing a determination OwlCapone to twist peoples words into your own (IMO warped) view of the situation.

No, that's not what i'm saying. I'm saying that some children should be prevented from flashing their underwear, because it does make other children laugh and it's not appropriate to flash your pants in school anyway. And that the laughing children should be shooed away somewhere else.

Boy/Girl is NOTHING to do with my opinion. It's irrelevant, and I would be of the same opinion if it was a group of 7 year old girls laughing at 7 year old boys who were showing their pants.

But it does boil down to the girls changing what they wear so the boys won't be silly. Why should they have to? They are just doing handstands not roaming the playground flashing their pants at poor, unsuspecting lads.

Should grown women not wear what they want on a night out just in case a man gets ideas?

Why are you comparing predatory men and women to a group of 7 year olds, and trying to attribute adult thoughts and behaviour to 7 year olds?

I find it all rather disturbing tbh.

Why are you assigning adult norms and values of modesty to a bunch of seven year olds? It's not appropriate Nor necessary.

Because the value of 'modesty' is not solely applicable to adults. Learning 'modesty' is a gradual change.

Do you just allow your child to be (for instance) naked on a beach, until one day aged 14 you flip a switch and tell them it's not appropriate anymore? Or do you gradually encourage them to cover up a little?

Well if OwlCapone is warped, then she's certainly not the only one judging by this thread. Imo it's more warped to suggest that young girls should cover themselves up in order to not provoke a certain reaction from other children.

If the boys can see girls' knickers when communally changing for PE without finding the need hyperventilate with hysterical laughter, or to taunt and tease, then they can also do it on the playing field and damn well leave the girls to play in peace.

I agree with you, OP. Why should the little girls change their behaviour because of the boys?

The predatory men on a night out have probably been learning since their days in the playground that, if women are wearing/showing certain things, they're fair game and 'asking for it'.

The women equally have been learning since childhood that the onus is on them to dress 'modestly' and not 'inflame' men by showing underwear.

And as for learning modesty, doesn't it generally happen that children themselves dictate when they start feeling shy about certain things? I remember my nephew when he was small happily using the loo with the door open, but seemingly overnight becoming more shy and insisting on having the door shut.

I'm sure I felt and decided for myself, too, when it was time to start covering up on the beach etc.

I think girls school uniform at primary level should be one of these...
But I can guess which the daily mail would prefer.

But the value of modesty around showing a little pantage is not appropriate to a seven year old doing cartwheels. Therefore what you are assigning to seven year olds is IMHO applicable to only adults. Like you say it's a gradual process as is encouraging boys to behave appropriately, however the behaviour of the boys was disruptive and overstepping the mark and should have been addressed over and above the message to cover up.

Exactly OnlyLovers.

Actually having a laugh here trying to imagine a nearly 14 year old who'd be happy to parade naked on a beach because their parents hadn't yet introduced the concept of 'modesty'.

tabby if you worked at my child's school and told her she couldn't do cartwheels etc unless she had shorts on there would be hell to pay

Bring it on 5madthings . I would love to hear my headteacher's response to a parent who insisted her child should be permitted to flash her/his underwear in the playground.

Perhaps my values are old fashioned and I think that tomorrow I will canvass opinion among the other supervisors/teachers at my school and see what the consensus is.

You seem to want to blow it out of context tabby it's not about parents insisting on their children being permitted to flashing pants in the playground.

I think I get what you mean. The boys should have been told to buzz off, not the girls to modify their behaviour.

If the uniform isn't suitable for children to play in, then it's the uniform that needs to be changed.

I certainly wouldn't be impressed if my dd was told that she could only play if she wore shorts.

Maybe we are at cross purposes, OP. I have read your original post and you mention boys laughing as being the reason the girls were sent in to put shorts on.

My point would be that children don't flash their underwear (boys or girls) in the playground; it's just not a habit I would like to see continue.

Many of our girls already wear shorts under their dresses (the summer dresses are invariably short and the girls come to school with these shorts already on, put there by the parents). As boys don't wear skirts (!) it is not an issue for boys, however if they did wear skirts and cartwheeled, I would stop them too.

This situation you outlined reinforces

boys laughing at girls underwear = girls having to put shorts on to hide underwear

which does give the impression that the girls have to change their behaviour to stop the boys laughing.

My point was that children should not be flashing their underwear in the playground full stop.

I have some sympathy with your particular scenario, OP, it's unfortunate that it comes across that girls have to change their clothing to stop the boys silly reaction to seeing their underwear.

They were doing handstands not flashing at the boys.

There is nothing more child appropriate than doing a few handstands. The boys behaviour was inappropriate, not the girls so why should they change to suit the boys?

Tabby, I am not much younger than you (if your net name is your year of birth) and I do believe your view is very old fashioned to the point of Victorian.

I remember doing handstands at that age with friends in the 70s.