To tell friend how I feel about lending money

[pupsiecola]

My best friend has asked me for a loan to see her through until pay day (150 quid). This has happened about 6 times in the last 12. We also leant her 500 quid 2 years ago. Last month she paid back 50. The rest is outstanding. I know other people have leant them a lot of money too.

Her DH has MH issues. She has a really really tough life. She works full-time and has a DD. They have struggled financially since he had a breakdown around 15 years ago. He's not really worked since.

She has started a relationship with someone at work who also has MH issues. I am worried about her because whilst I don't judge her (and actually think she deserves some fun and a bit of happiness) he seems to be bring far more problems than he's worth (he is single, but much much younger).

Anyway, I always lend her the money when she asks, without question. She always pays the short term stuff back. The 500 I have almost written off.

I have two issues:-

1. Since getting involved with this guy at work I feel I don't hear from her as much and it's always me who initiates contact. But I know she is very busy at work etc. and I get that friendship is give and take in terms of effort put in. Only thing here is I do feel a bit taken for granted. Eg today I wake up to a chatty (but apologetic) text asking if it's possible to borrow the 150.
   

1. I don't think she is careful with money. For example she bought her daughter a pen for a fiver the other week! But she bought her the same pen in a different colour a few weeks ago. She bought her man friend a funny and pointless game for 20 quid last time we were together (2 weeks ago). Now, again I try not to judge. She works hard and it's up to her what she spends her money on. But it does make me feel a bit resentful when she then doesn't have enough money to last the month.
   

We are in the process of buying a house. We could really do with the 450 quid back. And whilst I could lend her the 150 and probably will as I love her and don't want her to have this stress, I do feel upset and I do actually feel resentment building. I am worried I will tell her how I feel about it, and it will ruin our friendship.

WWYD please?

[JustSpeakSense]

I agree she won't be receptive to any advice.

My response (or excuse) for not lending her money (because I am rubbish at being assertive) would be that I am really sorry, but my DH is not prepared for us to lend you any more money, partly because she didn't repay the last loan and partly because you are saving for a house. And you are really sorry, but he is the main breadwinner and budget keeper, and he feels you have helped enough and it is now out of your hands (a bit chicken to blame DH I know...)

And then I would continue to be a supportive friends but hang back a bit and see if she continues to make an effort with your friendship or let's it all fizzle out because you are of no use to her anymore.

[expatinscotland]

Definitely drugs and or gambling.

[pupsiecola]

Her DD has a smart phone to the tune of 15 quid a month. My boys just have a cheapo (cost 9 quid) old fashioned jobbie on a pay as you go, for emergencies because they don't need smart phones at their ages. FFS. I need to STOP THIS NOW!

[AntoinetteCosway]

I feel for you but this is not your fault. She earns a really good salary-far more than average. Just because your household income is higher does not mean you're responsible for her inability (or choice) not to budget.

I have no problem lending the odd fiver to a friend who's forgotten her purse, or buying coffees when I'm the one who's gone to queue up for them etc-because these little things are reciprocated and I think it's just swings and roundabouts and evens out in the end. But even those little things only even out when you trust the friend. This woman sounds untrustworthy.

[Crinkle77]

I might sound like a stinge but I never lend money to anyone. I have seen too many people fall out over money.

[ApproachingATunnel]

Nah, I don't think it's necessary drugs or gambling. She's obviously from a toxic family (toxic mother although dad sounds nice) and is probably one of those people who can't sit still unless they are spending (to fill the void but here I'm venturing into amateur psychology without even knowing her).

Restaurant lunches with OM, cosmetics, clothes/shoes/handbags, afterwork drinks with OM plus her own DH necking it in huge quantities would easily swallow her money in a few weeks.

[pupsiecola]

As an aside I have before offered to try to help her with her finances in terms of seeing where she could save money/work to a budget. I've tried not to sound patronising with it cos it would be easy to come across like that. Suggested she talk to someone about it etc. I can see now she has been stonewalling me on this.

They also have pets which seem to cost a lot of money. Once she tried to borrow 2k off her sister for vets bills to give their very old dog with cancer or suchlike an operation to possibly buy it a few more weeks/months. Her sister refused saying that they could not lend them the money for such a purpose. Friend's DH hasn't spoken to the sister since and "will never forgive her". Friend really struggled and was very angry with her sister for a long long time.

[glasgowstevenagain]

You do need to stop this now as you say.

Your family are good with money.

Hers are not.

she sees as necessities what you see as luxuries.

[DeWee]

I was in a similar situation a number of years ago. A friend went into financial problems from being fairly okay off very suddenly due to redundancies and a couple of family issues.
She mentioned one time that she was feeding her dc cornflakes the night before as she didn't have any food in and no money until today. So I said to her that wasn't to happen again, she could come round and I'd lend her 10 to get stuff.

So this happened a few times. She always paid it back at the end of the month when she got paid. Then it started being 10 3 or 4 times a month, then it was 20 for new shoes for dc...
Thing was I'd become an easy bank. So I'd give her 20 for shoes, and she'd then come back the next day and ask for it again because she'd gone to buy the shoes, and then they'd seen a DVD they'd wanted for ages on offer, so they'd got that and ordered in pizza to have a nice night of it...
But then that meant instead of 20 for shoes (plus other bits) she owed at the start of the month, it was 40 (plus other bits). And each month it became more. So each month she was starting by paying a lot of her salary back to stay even.

I realised that actually being a free bank wasn't helping her. Because at that moment in time when she wanted the DVD, she didn't think about the money going back. But then she had less money the next month. I was actually enabling her to get further into debt.
When I'd realised this, I started "not having enough money", so she'd ask to borrow 20, and I would only have 15. Or I'd suggest they came for dinner, or have a spare packet of meat that we weren't going to use.
So I didn't drop her suddenly with nothing, but I made it clear that she couldn't just borrow and keep on borrowing, if I gave her meat/invited her for dinner she couldn't spend it on something else.

She was incredibly generous. So she did do things like spend the money for food on a bunch of flowers for someone or get a huge present etc. But the problem was she had changed her financial situation and was living as though she hadn't. Just giving her the money meant she didn't need to face up to it.

When she moved area, I also found that she had been borrowing money from several other people too. She always paid me back, however, some of the others she owed quite a bit to.

[TalisaMaegyr]

I hate to say this, but you are coming across as a little more judgemental with each post.

You do have the moral highground of course, but I think you're far too emotionally invested. Don't lend her any more money.

[pupsiecola]

Yes, I am aware I am. I am trying not to get more angry. I will try to move on. Thanks again for all the advice/opinions.

[ApproachingATunnel]

I don't think she's being judgemental, I think she is starting to see this woman for what she really is.

And there's nothing wrong with being judgemental, we all are after all just hide it when neccessary! :)

[VivaLeBeaver]

Just say no. I've lent a friend the odd £10 which she's paid back. Mother she borrowed £20 and never paid it back. I've resolved if she asks again ill say no. And that's only £20. I'd be very unhappy if someone owed me £500.

[sezamcgregor]

I think that we get that she spends money in any way that she sees fit.

When my mum asks to borrow money for food and then spends it on wine, I get a bit annoyed very cross, but it's not really up to me what she spends the money on so long as I get it back on time.

[frumpet]

I once borrowed a largish sum from my best friend many years ago , £100 , she had recently had a large inheritance . I hated it , stressed constantly about paying it her back , which i did well within the timescale we had agreed . Now i might borrow the odd fiver or tenner if school suddenly spring a request on us and always pay back within a week , still hate borrowing though

[glasgowstevenagain]

But do ask her for the money back!

[JustSpeakSense]

The fact that every single person who posted on this thread said stop giving her money means hat no matter how rubbish you feel saying no - you know that it is the right thing to do.

[eddielizzard]

work out what she owes you and ask for it back.

[DeWee]

but it's not really up to me what she spends the money on so long as I get it back on time.

But surely if someone asks for food money and spends it on wine, there's two things here.

1. Would you have given it for wine? if the answer's no, then they've obtained money by deception. If they intended from the start to buy wine, and knew you wouldn't lend it for that, then they have deliberately lied to you, which I see as a problem.
   

1. If they intended to buy food and actually bought wine, they still have to buy food. So they're going to have to borrow more money to get the food they need. So you're actually enabling them to go into debt, because they will owe double the money.

[DenzelWashington]

Ok listen, I've been you, and told the story on here before.

Your friend is exactly like mine. Earning, NOT HARD UP, but absolutely determined not to deny herself any luxury or item that makes life easier. It is in many ways like an addiction, but that's all the more reason not to feed it.

To get the money she wants your friend lies to you. Th reality is that you and the others she taps aren't actually paying for life's essentials, but for a completely chaotic and selfish lifestyle. Please don't, because as well as depriving you of money you need, you are enabling a way of being that is unsustainable and very bad for your friend.

[Aeroflotgirl]

She is in this position as she is rubbish with money, you are not. If she did not buy luxuries I.e tablets, I phone, pets she would gave enough money. Your chucking money into a bottomless pit, you are not helping her face reality, because when she is low on money people lend it to her. Stop this cycle! bet you don't hear from her if you say no more!

[Clutterbugsmum]

She earns around 42k I think. This is about the same as my DH earns and we pay all the household running costs for a family of 5 on this.

I think you need to write a list of all the money you have lent to her over the last couple of years and what you know what other people have lent to her/them.

If you think about it as whole she is taking home £3500 less tax and NI so around £2500. And her MIL is paying her £900 rent. So where is all there money going.

[jeee]

I don't think you're being judgemental enough, OP. It's up to her how she spends her money, but not how she spends your money.

[Clutterbugsmum]

Sorry THIER money not there money

[DenzelWashington]

I'm debating taking up your friend's technique, OP. I will spend all my income on jewels and get family and friends to pay for the boring stuff, like mortgage, insurance and food. Oh, it will be fab, I will be soooo sparkly!