Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Mr Mrs Miss Ms ---Asking for your support

228 replies

PleaseCallMeMs · 12/06/2014 23:05

"Ms" is a title that means "Miss or Mrs". It is the equivalent of "Mr", a title that can be used by any girl or lady that does not reveal anything about marital status. As some people put it, its short for "Mind your own businesS".

I have been trying for some time to get my bank to change my title from "Miss" to "Ms". When managing my account online, I cannot change my title directly. It defaults to "Miss" when I input my marital status as "with partner and children". I have emailed customer services a few times but got no reply. When I telephoned, the customer rep had to bring in "a specialist" to help out. They decided that I needed to take proof of my status to a branch to get my title changed!!!? When I asked what would be suitable proof that I'm a "Ms", they didn't know.

You may not think its a big deal, I'm not married and I should be happy with "Miss", but I really do find it offensive. I don't want to get married, but I'm in a committed relationship and I'm an older lady. I think its well within my rights to use the title of my preference and that our society should respect that. That's all I'm asking for. I agree it is only a little thing, but there is a deep issue here about the way we define women by their marital status. For example, a child will automatically know whether their female teachers are married or not, but won't have the same personal information to judge their male teachers. I believe that to create a truly equal society, it is important that we change the little things as well as the big things. Wouldn't it be better if, by default, when no information is known, a lady would be referred to as "Ms", instead of a guess being made about whether she is married or not? Those who wish to can, of course, use "Miss" or "Mrs". I'm not arguing that everyone should be forced to use "Ms". But those who want their marital status kept as their own business, should be able to do so.

There's been a few threads about "Ms" on Mumsnet in recent years. On one of them it was mentioned that someone should campaign about this. I thought I'd give it a go. So I've set up a twitter account in order to post about my experiences with the bank. I'd be glad if you would follow me, PleaseCallMeMs. I need a little momentum before I start to tweet to the bank's customer department. I'm hoping that if I get enough retweets, the bank will take notice! I'm new to twitter, so any advice will be gratefully received!!!

OP posts:
pyttipanne · 13/06/2014 09:48

Personally, I like Mrs- but I still think women should get to choose whichever title they want!

When I got married last year DH and I decided (for various reasons) that HE would take my name (which annoyingly had to be done by deedpoll because he is a man Hmm)
I still wanted to be a Mrs, so I took my marriage certificate to my bank to change my title... after a very frustrating hour I was assured by the female manager that it was impossible for me to be Mrs MaidenName as all women have to take their husbands surname on marriage BY LAW!! I must be Mrs HusbandsName or I would be committing some sort of crime!

I was so angry that I walked out. Later I made a complaint and got a very apologetic phone call and my title changed successfully...

Maybe I was unlucky... and I did get what I wanted in the end... but I still can't believe what happened, and it felt so much worse that it was another woman saying these things!

It IS 20-fucking-14, why is this still an issue!?!?

MelanieCheeks · 13/06/2014 09:56

Exactly, pytti, why on earth is this STILL an issue in 2014?

I've followed you on twitter.

I've been married and divorced several times, but I've always been a Ms. It's not that hard to pronounce, surely?

HauntedNoddyCar · 13/06/2014 10:01

The dividend cheques are issued to Miss. Sorry that was unclear

FartyMcGhee · 13/06/2014 10:08

My building society (Halifax) changed my Mortgage account (Which is in just my name) to my married name when my husband and I opened a joint account with them!

sashh · 13/06/2014 10:11

EATmum

That explains why I have a 'previous name' on my DBS.

WhoKnowsWhereTheTimeGoes · 13/06/2014 10:13

My driving licence still says Miss, when I renewed my photocard last year I looked at changing it to Ms, but it would have been a lot of extra effort according to the small print on the form, so I let it go. I'd rather get called Miss in error than Mrs for some reason, probably because Mrs pre-supposes that you changed your name.

Igggi · 13/06/2014 10:20

Londonrach, in what way is it an insult to say Ms? Confused

HazleNutt · 13/06/2014 10:21

The bank fraud explanation does not make sense - I am absolutely free to choose if I want to call myself Miss, Mrs or Ms. Mrs, wheter you are married or not and whether you kept your own name or not.

So what document exactly should I, according to banks, produce, if I one day decide to use Ms instead of Miss?

sezamcgregor · 13/06/2014 10:27

My idea was that people default to Ms when they do not know are too scared to ask whether to you are married or not

Ms to me also suggests professional spinster - the sort that have a career and miss out the getting married/having children stuff. Women opt to be a Ms when they divorce as they are "too old" to be a Miss

Miss is for unmarried women and children

Boys can be "Master" but still abbreviated to Mr

PleaseCallMeMs · 13/06/2014 10:29

I'm surprised and delighted at the response Thanks.

FrOZenKidS I really don't think this is an issue about security. I do telephone and internet banking, and I can change my personal details by these methods. So I can, for example, change my address. And I can change my title from "Miss" to "Mrs" by changing my marital status. I don't need to prove who I am in person to do these things. What is more, the customer rep didn't want proof of who I am. My passport wouldn't do, for example, because it doesn't have a title on it. She wanted proof that I'm a "Ms". I think that involves lifting my skirt up Grin.

MeganGriffin The bank is HSBC.

Szeli I am sure I could easily open a new account with "Ms". But I've had this original account since I was 7 years old or so, and I also have a joint account with my partner. I'd have to change the whole lot of direct debits and paychecks etc. What I'd like to do is instead get the bank to change their system so that a woman's title doesn't automatically default from marital status.

OP posts:
Quangle · 13/06/2014 10:31

Completely agree with this.

I had the infuriating experience recently of filling out a form for us as a family. The only truthful option for me was Miss, along with my 7 year old DD (no Ms option). Whilst my 4 year old son got to be Mister because there was no Master option.

Unmarried men would not accept being referred to as Master - which is the corollary to Miss.

WalkingThePlank · 13/06/2014 10:38

Hi, have just followed you on Twitter. Good luck from a fellow Ms.

eurochick · 13/06/2014 10:39

Please it was HSBC that accidentally had me as Miss and took a while to change it (mentioned in my earlier post on here), but did without requiring any proof. It just took a while as changing it on one system didn't change it elsewhere.

Xenadog · 13/06/2014 11:04

Another "Ms" here who is sick of being asked if I am divorced. I just like my marital status to be as anonymous as a man's "Mr". Why should anyone know if I am married or not in this day and age? Plus, I'm also in a committed long term relationship but don't want to marry DP and as I'm not a young thing either I feel "Miss" doesn't serve me as a title.

It really gets my goat.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 13/06/2014 11:13

Another one here who thinks ms = divorced

Miss = Unmarried (with virginal overtones)
Mrs = Married (not virgin)
Ms. =,divorced (not virgin,not married, somehow sullied)

I have no idea where I have picked this up from - Jane Austen maybe. I'm obviously not the only one and this is why I would be uncomfortable being a ms. I am an unmarried mother so I usually select Miss.

I agree with those suggesting we just ditch titles though - they are very unnevessary .

MelanieCheeks · 13/06/2014 11:15

Ms is certainly convenient for divorcees. But it's not a rule, and it covers more than "just" divorcees. I don't think it existed in Austen's time.

Lovecat · 13/06/2014 11:16

Pytti, I had an identical conversation with a female bank clerk some 23 years ago when I got married! "It's the LAW!"

I wonder if it's the same woman, promoted...?

I've always been a Ms (and funnily enough it's always women who question it. I was actually once asked 'Why?' on the phone when giving my details. I told her it was because my marital status was irrelevant to whether or not I could rent a telly (

MelanieCheeks · 13/06/2014 11:19

I vote for "Modom" as an alternative appellation!

elfycat · 13/06/2014 11:27

I've been Ms for a while now (married but kept my name). My bank account is still in Miss as one of the reasons not to name change is that I couldn't be bothered with additional paperwork, so I left it.

Filing out forms for my DDs I have found myself automatically entering Ms for them, they are 3 and 5 years old. It got picked up by -a mysogynistic fart-- the cashier at the bank, who belittled me, so I gave him my best stare. They are now officially Ms with the bank.

Quangle · 13/06/2014 11:29

I also hate it when Thames Water (for example) ask me if they can call me by my first name. It feels really awkward saying "No, it's Ms Quangle" but actually I don't think they should ask. They should just assume it's Ms Quangle until I say to them, "oh please do call me Philomena" (ie, never).

Especially since they are ripping me off, the blood-sucking bastards.

RedToothBrush · 13/06/2014 11:39

I am so pleased to see so many other people who have had similar problems to me.

FrOZenKidS I really don't think this is an issue about security. I do telephone and internet banking, and I can change my personal details by these methods. So I can, for example, change my address. And I can change my title from "Miss" to "Mrs" by changing my marital status. I don't need to prove who I am in person to do these things. What is more, the customer rep didn't want proof of who I am. My passport wouldn't do, for example, because it doesn't have a title on it. She wanted proof that I'm a "Ms". I think that involves lifting my skirt up

My current bank asked me the same thing, and insisted I show them a marriage certificate. I was extremely pissed off at this and the hassle it caused. It made me feel like a liar and to this day I don't understand why they legally had to see it. As it was they still pulled a face as my marriage certificate is not British.

I wish I hadn't bothered and taken the complaint further at the time when I look back at it. If I hadn't had a good experience with them for years apart from this, I probably would have considered changing banks.

When I renewed my credit card I tried to change my title. In the end I settled with just using my initials as it was proving such a nightmare.

Nationwide tried to change my name without my permission and told me I LEGALLY HAD TO change my name on marriage. I no longer bank with them as it was the icing on the cake of being shit.

WhoKnowsWhereTheTimeGoes · 13/06/2014 11:39

I think they should ask, I am more than happy to be called by my first name, especially if it gets round the "assuming I'm Mrs because when I called I gave my name as Firstname Surname" business.

RedToothBrush · 13/06/2014 11:43

Oh and even though I have changed my title with my bank, my online account still hasn't changed.

WhoKnowsWhereTheTimeGoes · 13/06/2014 11:47

I just went to my online banking to see if I could change from Miss to Ms. The only option is a change of name form, which requires marriage certificate, divorce certificate or whatever. I will go in and ask next time I am in a town with a branch (which will be a long time as they've all changed to TSB).

Mim78 · 13/06/2014 11:49

I am a ms.

But frankly I think there should be just one title for all adult women. Or why have titles at all what purpose do they serve? Unless you've worked hard to become a doctor I suppose and want to show it off!

Swipe left for the next trending thread