Mr Mrs Miss Ms ---Asking for your support

[PleaseCallMeMs]

"Ms" is a title that means "Miss or Mrs". It is the equivalent of "Mr", a title that can be used by any girl or lady that does not reveal anything about marital status. As some people put it, its short for "Mind your own businesS".

I have been trying for some time to get my bank to change my title from "Miss" to "Ms". When managing my account online, I cannot change my title directly. It defaults to "Miss" when I input my marital status as "with partner and children". I have emailed customer services a few times but got no reply. When I telephoned, the customer rep had to bring in "a specialist" to help out. They decided that I needed to take proof of my status to a branch to get my title changed!!!? When I asked what would be suitable proof that I'm a "Ms", they didn't know.

You may not think its a big deal, I'm not married and I should be happy with "Miss", but I really do find it offensive. I don't want to get married, but I'm in a committed relationship and I'm an older lady. I think its well within my rights to use the title of my preference and that our society should respect that. That's all I'm asking for. I agree it is only a little thing, but there is a deep issue here about the way we define women by their marital status. For example, a child will automatically know whether their female teachers are married or not, but won't have the same personal information to judge their male teachers. I believe that to create a truly equal society, it is important that we change the little things as well as the big things. Wouldn't it be better if, by default, when no information is known, a lady would be referred to as "Ms", instead of a guess being made about whether she is married or not? Those who wish to can, of course, use "Miss" or "Mrs". I'm not arguing that everyone should be forced to use "Ms". But those who want their marital status kept as their own business, should be able to do so.

There's been a few threads about "Ms" on Mumsnet in recent years. On one of them it was mentioned that someone should campaign about this. I thought I'd give it a go. So I've set up a twitter account in order to post about my experiences with the bank. I'd be glad if you would follow me, PleaseCallMeMs. I need a little momentum before I start to tweet to the bank's customer department. I'm hoping that if I get enough retweets, the bank will take notice! I'm new to twitter, so any advice will be gratefully received!!!

Exactly. I can call myself what I want. Why my status is relevant to my title I'll never know.

none of anyone's fucking business

My bank card just has my name on it. No title. I'm not sure why a title is necessary on a bank card.

I also thought traditionally Ms was for a divorcee, I remember my mother throwing a fit and refusing to switch from mrs as she didn't want all and sundry knowing she had a failed marriage behind her ...

I suppose it's the same in reverse now Ms has been mostly reclaimed by those wanting not to disclose marital status.

Pleasecallmems in light of what the bank worker said, could you not close your account and immediately reopen one as Ms? This gets around the need for proof of change of title if you haven't changed it 'legally'

I could have a title of Jedi Master or Dr

How would they relate that to my marital status or my sex?

Knobbers

just because I like him

My bank defaults me to miss when I always check the Ms box or write it.

I am married (granted I haven't uttered a word to the man for well over 3 years or Clapped eyes on him but married I am)

I'm very happy being Mrs, I'm old and traditional, but I don't see why women can't choose what ever title they like.

Ms does sound odd to me, I'm afraid. Although I agree it does feel odd addressing letters to my 43y DSIS as Miss and getting post addressed the same way for my teen DDs.

Personally I'd much rather just be No Comet, no title at all. Most of the time my gender and marital status are utterly irrelevant to the business in hand.

Oh and IME banks are spectacularly useless at customer service.

It's not about "reclaiming" it. It's never signified a divorcee.

The New York Times has a piece on the history of "Ms" as a title, if anyone is interested.

I can see why it can help to indicate if you're male or female on a bank card - if you use it in a shop in person, if your card says Mr P Smith and you're clearly Ms/Miss/Mrs, it would suggest fraudulent use. Although I am not sure anyone checks cards that closely - you stick it in the reader and do your PIN.

OK, so it doesn't need it on the card, because as the transaction goes through, it could trigger an extra check - cardholder is female, and shop assistant has to confirm. Although if you've got someone who's androgynous, getting it wrong would cause embarrassment.

So it doesn't need it on the card at all.

Im a Ms on my bank account, on my passport, whenever I get asked if I'm mrs or miss I also say I'm "ms". I've never had a single problem.

What bank is this please OP?

I think the problem you're encountering is purely down to a "status change" - it's all a bit "computer say no"

I can't remember an incidence online where I haven't been able to check Ms as an option - and I would remember because it would have fucked me right off.

I've also never been derided as choosing Ms as my status, on the phone, in person or in my imagination. I ALWAYS use Ms as my suffix and I've never, ever had a problem...because people generally don't give a fuck, and if they do then fuck them, right?

I specified Ms on the day I opened my student bank account in 1995. I identified with the equality argument back then (a man's title doesn't distinguish marital status) and have felt the same ever since. Got married, had kids, no one at the bank got involved in asking for forms/ certificates or any other general busybodying. My Natwest card still has Ms on it.

Blimey three pages of comments on titles and no one has said 'Debretts says blah blah blah' as if it actually meant anything.

How My bank card has I.T. Botham on it, my credit card has Ian T. Botham and my driving licence is Ian Terrance Botham.* Not a title in sight. This caused my sister much angst as she had completed her PhD and was desperate to update everything with her new status. If we did away with needless stuffy formalities then it would solve a lot of problems.

I don't see a problem with addressing formal letters as 'Dear Ian Botham' rather than Mr/Ms/Mrs/Miss Botham.

• I am not actually Ian Botham.

Hello Ian - I really hated those shredded wheat ads - you twat

Onesleep, you're right actually. I hadn't thought of it like that. I had assumed that they were asking in a 'you'll take your DP's name, won't you' way, when they could have been asking 'will you take your DP's name or keep yours?'. Some definitely did ask the first question straight up (mostly older relatives), lots didn't. Still think it's a bit strange though, when a friend tells you that they are engaged and your first question is 'are you changing your name'?

OP, I have followed you on Twitter, also. Mind you, I hardly use it and have about 9 followers, so I'm not exactly a voice that is heard by many .

Sorry, need to sleep so can't read whole thread tonight. But what you need as 'evidence ' is several pieces of post sent to you as Ms. Just as you would if changing other aspects of your name. You are right to be annoyed. All the best. I don't do Twitter so can't help with that.

As much as I love the UK, I have to say that we Americans are much more advanced on this issue.

First of all, Ms. is very common and tends to be the default title for all adult women, married or not, especially in a professional context.

Secondly, banks and other commercial enterprises don't require titles. None of my banking information has a title on it, just my name. Letters from the bank say Dear Firstname Surname (in the Quaker fashion though I am sure that's not the reason). Titles are obviously much more important in the UK, but you have a lot more titles than we do (Lord, Lady, Sir, Dame, etc.); perhaps that has something to do with it.

I agree 100% with your proposition. I have always been able to use Ms in the US, both married and divorced. The UK seems really behind with the insistence on Miss or Mrs.

I don't know how your comment is relevant to the question of a woman being able to use Ms or Mrs or Miss, Goblin.

I think titles are seen as a quaint courtesy in the US. You rarely encounter them.

I live in the US and agree that titles are used less and when they are Ms is far more acceptable.

How do you pronounce it? I always said "Mizz" but kept getting things back with "Miss" written down. Now I say "Muzz" - which works a bit better, though I've had several phone calls asking for M.S. Juneblooms.

... Oh, and some automated voice messages for "Manuscript Juneblooms"

It's actually short for Mistress, isn't it? The female equivalent of Mister.

You Americans are in line with most of Europe then as in Madame , Frau , Mevrouw, Fru. And good on the lot of you.

I say Miz. In the US, we don't have the problem of people hearing Miss because Ms is so common.

After a conversation with my (divorced but none of your business) mother at the age of about 8, I have ALWAYS, yes in every single instance ever, GIVEN my name as Ms (meaning none of your business, as explained if asked). My main bank calls me Ms, but some other companies inexplicably have me down as Miss.

Yes there does need to be a campaign. Let's start with naming the companies, and see if any in particular are consistently messing this up.

Co-op bank = Ms
Nat West = Miss
Southern Electric = Ms

These are the ones I can see from my desk, I will add more later as they send me bills/statements etc.

For the record I have an unusual surname so there won't be any confusion potential with anyone else, and of course I don't have any documentation to say I've been married, divorced or anything else, since I never have.

Re: pronunciation I always say "Ms, as in emm ess", so any confusion has definitely been the result of things having been changed or assumed by the company. I really have always done this since I was a child so I'm confident that no companies have been told to call me Miss at any point in my life.

Will resurect my defunct twitter account to follow you, PleaseCallMeMs.

I've been Ms since my teens and I'm in my 30's now. I've never had an issue with my bank accepting that, although I opened the account as Ms so perhaps that's why

I've been Ms since I was 10. I am in my 30s now. Am married but that's irrelevant - I was Ms wehn I was single, living with a partner, and engaged. That's why I like it - I can't tell anything about a man's relationship status from Mr and I expect an equivalent title.