to be surprised by single sex changing rooms in M&S!

[MrsMaturin]

There is a new M&S near us. It's pretty huge with ladieswear downstairs with a changing room and then menswear and childrens upstairs also with a changing room.
This week I took dd2 (13) to look for a school skirt which she had to try one because school are v fussy about length. We found two and headed over to the changing rooms on that floor. When we got there the man wouldn't let us in saying it was men only. I pointed out that the children's department was also on that floor with no separate facility but he was implacable. AIBU in finding this really odd? The changing rooms are all made up of cubicles and I've never been told they are single sex. If I had been shopping with my son would I be told to wait outside, unable to see how the garments looked on him? This is a minor issue of course but his officious exclusion of us really made me cross plus the ladies changing rooms were miles away. If we'd wanted the staff there to fetch us something else it would have taken them quite some time.
Or am I being weird and you would expect changing rooms to be single sex only in a major clothing shop/department store?

You don't think Flora's views count.

But actually another women up above who you ridiculed, also said she did not like unisex changing rooms.

Nope Kim, how many times have I mentioned family or unisex changing areas as part of the mix?

In my local M&S there are separate male and female changing facilities and a separate children's changing area. Which is ideal because if you're with another woman like I often am then you can step outside of the cubicle and show them your outfit (which may be a bikini or something revealing).

I go to the local hotel to use the gym and pool.
They have the best arrangement in my view for changing.

A men's changing room.
A women's changing room with no boys allowed over age 6.
A smaller family changing room with some cubicles and 'family cubicles', and mixed changing areas.

This caters for everyone!

I hate, hate, hate unisex changing rooms, after the time when I was trying on some jeans and turned round and there was a smirking man peering through the curtain.

I was so totally shocked I didn't even shout, just got dressed as fast as I could and left without buying the jeans.

I think that in theory separate female and male changing facilities, and then some family cubicles sounds like the ideal solution. The biggest problem would be the entitled arses who would inevitably help themselves to a large family cubicle to themselves, leaving families nowhere to change.

What about mixed sex toilets then?

Separate cubicles but mixed sex together and mixed wash basins and mirror area.

Personally I hate them - I feel uncomfortable trying to put make up on with men staring at me (I like to reapply my lippy a lot).

In a bar in town there have been sexual assaults in their mixed toilets.

One coffee shop has mixed toilets... the café is popular with Arabic men and I get the impression that they are very uncomfortable with having mixed sex toilets because of their culture.

My views don't count because I try to prioritise women, I know that many or most women have experienced uncomfortable interactions with men who want to observe or access their bodies. This is a real thing.

I've not been to one of the pools mentioned for a while but it has been predominantly mixed all the time I've known it. The other went to mixed about ten years ago.

The former has all the changing in lockable cubicles with a women only area and family/disabled cubicles. I don't think there's a men only area but no doubt there would be if the demand was there.

My only gripe is the communal mixed showers where it's difficult to get properly clean (plus instructions on my cossie say to remove it when washing hair) but since people generally don't shower in M&S that's not entirely relevant.

I think with regard to the mixed changing village, what I'm struggling with is that whilst I know that men behaving uncomfortably towards women is a real thing, I don't quite understand how a man on the other side of a partition with a lockable door is in a position to actually see anything or make comments?

Please don't think I am dismissing anyone's views, I'm not. I'm just trying to understand.

Depends on whether the door has gaps at foot and/ or bottom. I've not been in a unisex changing room but I don't particularly like the idea.

1 in 4 women in the UK have been raped by a man. Many many more have been sexually harassed. As a result, many women are understandably wary of men they don't know. Being naked or semi naked, creates a feeling of vulnerability. Being surrounded by men, even if you can't see them but can just hear them, would not be a good experience for many women.

Would imagine there are quite a few women (and men) who feel uncomfortable doing things that they would normally consider private like drying and dressing themselves in such close proximity to members of the opposite sex.

And agree withthenposter who made the point that many women have bad or unpleasant experiences of strange men assaulting them even in public places when other people have been about so this is actually a valid fear and something that many have already experinced - so yes again I can see why women especially might feel uncomfortable or a bit vulnerable.

I hate unisex changing rooms and toilets.

I had an awful experience in a changing village at a swimming pool once, because a man found he could simply stand on the bench and look over the side of the cubicle. Women are entitled to complete privacy, without males invading it. Agree with calmet.

But what about people who've been assaulted by those of the same sex, boys who were abused by men etc?

I can see a difference between separate cubicles and separate rooms but where does one draw the line?

The changing villages I've used have had walls which are too high to look over (even when standing on bench). I do think this should be a requirement in mixed changing areas.

Fair enough.

I've been groped and harassed by men in public places so I'm not living in some dreamworld where it doesn't happen. But the two times in my life that I have been very violently assaulted were by other females and as a result I am much more afraid of other women than I am of men. I think that's probably why on a personal level I find mixed sex changing much less intimidating than single sex.

I actually hate swim area changing areas regardless of what gender is there. I wouldn't be caught dead in a community shower either. Personally, for me, it's just awkward. I don't know why, maybe I'm just prudish like that. :)

I just wear my swim suit there and drive home in my bikini with a towel on the seat. But, bikinis dry pretty quick while sun bathing anyway so 99% of the time I just throw my shorts and tshirt back on and change at home/the hotel. You need to shower all the chlorine/natural water off anyway before putting on clean clothes.

Of course women have been physically attacked by other women. But there really is no comparison to the 1 in 4 womenwho have been raped by men, or the amount of women who have been sexually assaulted or harassed by men.

I doubt that there are any or extremely few women, who have never been sexually assaulted or harrassed by a man.

In terms of children who have been sexually assaulted or raped, presumably they would go into changing rooms with a parent.