to be surprised by single sex changing rooms in M&S!

[MrsMaturin]

There is a new M&S near us. It's pretty huge with ladieswear downstairs with a changing room and then menswear and childrens upstairs also with a changing room.
This week I took dd2 (13) to look for a school skirt which she had to try one because school are v fussy about length. We found two and headed over to the changing rooms on that floor. When we got there the man wouldn't let us in saying it was men only. I pointed out that the children's department was also on that floor with no separate facility but he was implacable. AIBU in finding this really odd? The changing rooms are all made up of cubicles and I've never been told they are single sex. If I had been shopping with my son would I be told to wait outside, unable to see how the garments looked on him? This is a minor issue of course but his officious exclusion of us really made me cross plus the ladies changing rooms were miles away. If we'd wanted the staff there to fetch us something else it would have taken them quite some time.
Or am I being weird and you would expect changing rooms to be single sex only in a major clothing shop/department store?

Surely it doesn't matter if you don't understand? If that is how some women feel, they should be accomodated.

And cubicles are usually small. You have a small area with you in it.

I would provide a woman only, men only and mixed changing space. Preferably all with cubicles and communal changing areas.

And yes, of course that would be a valid concern and should be accommodated. It isn't in the council run pools where I live.

Asda, Tesco, sainsbury - mixed

Debenhams - I dunno actually! There is one on the floor the ladies is on, one on the floor the gents is on .... and one on huge floor the children's is! (Infact 2 as there's one by ladies undies which is on same floor as children's)

Kim, I actualy don't need to "come up with" anything. If women don't want to change in a cubicle with men around, they shouldn't have to.

Kim - Yes I am well aware that what you are concerned about is you. And actually there does still need to be extra space for disabled people. I could not change a teenage disabled child in a cubicle.

Also having a couple of toddlers in a small cubicle with you, would be a nightmare.

Cubicles are not enough. Other space still needs to be provided. Those larger cubicles are not big enough to help someone with a disability change.

I think calmet has it. It doesn't matter if other people understand why women might not be comfortable with mixed changing areas. The fact is they are not and this is largely due to the prevalence of male violence against women and male entitlement to women's bodies. Whether some women accept the measures provided by some facilities to deal with this (eg locked cubicles over curtained) does not mean that women who are not comfortable with those measures should be disregarded.

In my local pool there is a changing area designated as "Family Change" with a communal and cubicled area. Most times I have been there there have been some single men. Why? Why are they not in the men's area? As soon as my DS was old enough to go into the men's, I stopped using the family area. Even then, I would stand outside the men's area and worry about him if he was five minutes late. Why do you think this is?

kim cross post.

some changing villages might be adequate for me and I hate communal changing areas anyway but the ones I have experienced have not been as you describe. They usually have no staff patrolling and often the cubicles have gaps in the doors or are not that private.

I am also not interested in trying to shame other women into accepting something just because it is acceptable to me.

I remember on here an elderly woman saying she and her friend stopped going swimming when her pool changed to this type of changing facility. You can ridicule their feelings all you want, but I think those women matter.

And elderly woman rarely kick up a fuss when they feel unable to use facilities any more. They are largely ignored.

Unisex doesn't bother me but I can see why some folk male and female might not like it. Many folk grew up where the sexes were more separate. For older people to then have to get used to unisex in what they see as a personal and private thing whether it be in a traditional store like M&S with lots of older customers or a swimming pool - yes I can see the issues.

Probably somewhere down the line, unisex will become the norm in changing rooms and loos etc.

You are not seeing the elderly women who do care because they have removed themselves rather than make a fuss.

Yes, sometimes presenting "another POV" is shaming. Women know this.

You are dismissing the elderly women, and I am sure men, who do care. I have said how I understand those who want unisex changing areas and that their needs should be provided for. You Kim on the otherhand just dismiss any other woman's concerns about unisex changing areas as being totally invalid. That is shaming women.

I knwo it is the people who shout the loudest who tend to get their own way. But I think you underestimate the number of people who are quietly unhappy about things and just stop attending things.

Out of interest, would 'good' changing village facilities make it more acceptable to those who feel uncomfortable? By which I mean almost floor to ceiling partitions, decent sized cubicles, separate private showers etc? Or would that still not feel comfortable? I think there definitely are some facilities that are more private than others. But I'm 38 and in the 20 years or so that our local pool has had these facilities, I've never witnessed a man expose himself or behave inappropriately or in an intimidating way.

That is not to belittle the fears of those who don't like them, I'm not bring dismissive of your concerns, just adding my own observation. I am the original prude btw, I was brought up in a family where nudity was totally unacceptable, we never saw each other undressed, I don't 'do' nudity as I'm so uncomfortable with it, so I am very far from those posters who are all 'oh, it's only a body!'

I have told you, as have others, that they do not like to get changed in a cubicle with men round about. It doesn't matter that you don't understand that, it is an issue. I have also told you that others have posted on MN saying they stopped going swimming when this type of changing arrangement was introduced.

Looking at changing rooms is about balancing the needs of everyone. Space is a strawman as cubicles take up much more space than communal single sex changing rooms, plus family changing areas. If there is space for cubicles, there is space to work out an arrangement that suits everyone.