to want to see DS's student digs bills before paying them?

[Eleanor02]

DS, final year uni, has rung to (once again) ask me to help him out with household bills. Two of them in a flat and other other student organised all the utilities etc and all the bills are therefore in his name. Advised DS at the time that they should work together on this.

Latest bill is BT. DS says that for for two recent months, flatmate wants £50 from him which would make it, if the flatmate is being straight with him, £100 between them. Then there's the issue of 3 months when the lads have left but the contract goes on. I have no idea what kind of contract they're on (neither has DS) or what their average monthly bill is. DS doesn't use the phone much - has a mobile. Really, they have the package for the internet (so clearly didn't need to bother with a home phone). All I know is that my household BT bill is pretty modest in comparison ..

AIBU is insisting that DS sees these bills for himself before phoning me again to ask for the dosh? Our household income is modest and it's been very difficult keeping up with DS' requests for money when I haven't seen any of the bills in questions.

And as for the remaining months (what possessed them to enter into an arrangement like this?), DS wants the money from me to give his flatmate who'll be responsible for those final bills but without knowing what contract they are on and what might possibly be done to mitigate things as far as BT is concerned, I'm reluctant to fork out - again.

Any thoughts really, really welcome.

To be fair, there is nothing to indicate in the OP that the lad isn't / wasn't working.

There's a massive difference in seeing parents as "an easy source of cash" and "being the people you turn to for help." I graduated from university in 2003 and did a PGCE the year after. The placements required a lot of public transport had I used it and my dad gave me a loan so I could buy a car. I only paid it back when I was working, though and that wasn't until the following September.

I would far rather a child of mine came to me for help than got into debt or got upset and panicked and stressed. Even if you're unable to help, knowing about money and bills and budgeting isn't a skill that comes naturally to some people and having an adult to talk to and say "look, the best thing to do is this" or "why don't you talk to X and see if you can do Y."

I know I'm going massively off topic here but I am very surprised by the number of people who assume that a full time student can support himself without any parental input at all and that furthermore, any young man or woman requiring financial help after the age of 18 is lazy, spoiled, selfish and demanding - and parents who can and want to help out are pandering to this.

My parents worked extremely hard to ensure my brother and I could have gone to university and have opportunities that this enabled. I am grateful for it and it's one of the reasons I love them. I plan to do the same for my own children.

Just to point out a couple of things - many students cant get the full loans. If parents earn over a certain amount, the student gets a reduced amount of student loan and the parents are expected to make up the shortfall and support their adult children through university. However, even on the full living cost loan, you'd be lucky to cover basic costs such as housing and food.

Some universities actually don't allow students to work during term and short holidays, and many doing high intensity courses are advised against term time working if the university doesn't specifically ban it.
For example my son had to sign a contract stating he wouldn't work in term time/short holidays (at his uni lectures and tutorials can be pretty much any time of day or night depending when the staff/guest is available and I think that's a big part of it).

It can be very difficult to get term time work in a university town... My other student age DS solved that by doing tutoring work with school kids (something he's found he's good at), a good solution as you can make your own hours.

HOWEVER, despite supporting them (both on minimum loans), we wouldn't pay any bill without seeing it! It takes only 5sec to snap a picture of a bill and message it to a parent as proof.

I suspect your experience around this issue depends on how well off you are. Most people I know had to work at University.

It depends on how old you are as well though. Few people worked when I was at university (80s) as we had grants either from the LEA or parents were expected to pay. The students with less well off parents were the least likely to work during term time as they received full grants.

Nothing wrong with supporting adult children financially through university. I didn't get support but I do hope to support our DC if we can to avoid them racking up debt.

However surely a situation where the student just rings bank of mum and dad and wants cash every time a bill comes in isn't at all supportive. It is giving the student no independence and they are bound to find standing on their own two feet and managing a budget more difficult.

Financial support should surely be in the form of the family working out what monthly amount they can afford, then it being up to the student to manage his/her finances accordingly.

Tbf to the flatmate though, it looks like someone had to guarantee the bills and he was the muggins to volunteer so maybe, as they are final year and all going their separate ways he wants to settle up and make sure he's not the one left with the bill.

Maybe he also doesn't have the money to pay up and then wait to be reimbursed - who knows where everyone might be in three months time. Why should it be his responsibilty to chase someone who might well be interailing in uzbekistan?

Maybe he's getting advice from his parents - don't leave the house without all loose ends tied up.

rawcoconuts, your explanation of student loans is not quite right.

Everyone is enititled to the full loan - about £3500 - no matter what their parents earn. But those below a specific income level are entitled to an additional grant. So the entitlement IS to the full loan. The additional bit is for a grant.

And as for seeing their bills and paying their rent etc - am I the only one who has had to act as the guarantor for the rent on the student house? For four different houses over the last five years? No, I think that. Is typical - kids couldn't rent their places if someone didn't step up for them. So not at all unusual to be involved in your DCs finances whilst they're still at uni

There is an expectation the parents will provide some support - that's why they take parental income into account when deciding what loan students are entitled to. I am one of the least indulgent parents ever, but I am supporting my two DC through uni.

The minimum student loan would not even cover rent at £70pw!

candycoat £95 pw here - and that is cheap for her uni city!

I think this is something you cannot generalise on. Some parents pay, some don't.
My DC both managed without any input from me but both have had very well paid jobs prior to uni and during university holidays. They are on fairly high loans plus bursaries plus grants as I am a lone parent, without these I would have to chip in. They have managed fine but are generally very good with managing their own money.

Both DC are not on the 9k fees though

I don't think it is unreasonable for the other flatmate to want some money up-front for the tail end of the contract, as everyone starts to go their separate ways for the summer. But the bills should definitely be available for everyone to see!

Forgot to add, he could probably get some work as soon as the term ends by joining the cleanng squad in the halls of residence, as they get cleaned up for summer conferences and lettings.

I did it and it was hard work/rather gruesome, but useful cash and in a convenient location.

Everythingcounts made good points. The OP is stretching herself to give this money to her DS so DS should at the very least be clear what the money is for. He's either immature or having a laugh!

On the wider issue of whether parents should support children at uni - my parents made it very clear to me that we had good universities in our city and that if I lived at home for uni I would not have to contribute to rent/bills etc. However, they were on a low income and could simply not afford to supplement me if I went to uni in another city so I never got or asked for financial support. I worked throughout my degree - contact time was only 9hrs so I attended all of my seminars/lectures but probably cut corners on independent study (although I probably would have doen this anyway!).

Although I'm in a slightly different position to my parents because I probably could afford some fianancial contribution to my children, I actually think in hindsight their position was very sensible - there's no educational reason for my children to study at a university outside of this city (unless of course Oxbridge is on the agenda!) so why should I pay for them to "live it up" elsewhere? They want a degree - fine, I'll foot the bills at home. They want to experience "independent living" at the same time - yeah, they can pay for that themselves.

Back when I was at Uni it felt different. We didnt have student loans to contend with. didnt have to pay back the cost of education. I lived away from home but rents were relatively cheap. I did a little work to supplement income, as my parents didn't support me. But just because I didnt get support doesnt mean I feel my DC shouldnt get mine.

Parental financial input for students is never going to be clear cut and separate. You're involved at the start when declaring income, and when they move on from campus accommodation too. The grants are good, but hard to live on even when budgeting. Im happy to help my DC, because I can. It isn't much, but it is a help.

Its a bit galling that in other parts of the UK students have it far easier in terms of fees and grants. Very discriminatory.

It depends on how old you are as well though. Few people worked when I was at university (80s) as we had grants either from the LEA or parents were expected to pay. The students with less well off parents were the least likely to work during term time as they received full grants.

I received a full grant of £2000 a year and nothing from my parents.

My rent was £2000 per year before bills :-/

Beckandcall, we are in Scotland so the amounts are slightly different, but the living cost loan is dependant on parental income... And it's a loan, not a grant. A minimum living cost loan is paid to every student regardless of parental income but most students will get a larger living cost loan than the minimum. The grants are available only to those with very low parental income (I think in Scotland that's about £16k household income), in recognition of the fact that parents in that situation will be hard pushed to top up their DC student loans with cash gifts.

Up till this current academic year, our DC could only get a living cost LOAN of £940 a year! This academic year the minimum loan been increased to about £3500, which is still substantially less than the full living cost loan.

I find it ironic that the gov. Is essentially forcing us to confer an advantage on our DC (due to our income, they will have very small student loans when they graduate, as the gov is getting us to fun the shortfall)!

*I received a full grant of £2000 a year and nothing from my parents.

My rent was £2000 per year before bills :-/*

Really? Was that it London? DH and I certainly had enough money for food/bills/going out after paying rent (I think we paid about £1000 a year in the mid eighties).

When I was at Uni I lived at home but still had yo go out and get a job as I paid £200 rent and had to pay for my own stuff.

It shocks me these days how entitled some Uni students, who are adults, are when it comes to money and expecting their parents to just pay out.

And also shocked at how many parents actually hand over money.

I went to Uni in the 80s, so it was easier for me.

I actually think there is no point to endless stories of "I did this or that", and judging parents who want to financially support their DCs at Uni. We all have different preferences, who is anybody to judge? The issue at hand is the bill presented to the OP, and the advice she wants on how to handle that. Pages of eyebrow-raising at a parent supporting DC through Uni reallly isn't helpful. I doubt its going to stop her giving support, she just wants guidance on best way to do it.

My DS's rent for the last year has been £350 per month - one room in a 6 bed houseshare. This is not an unusual amount in the town he is studying in.
We pay that as his maintenance loan would not go anywhere near covering it.
He lives off his maintenance loan and works if he needs extra.
The new loan system is all based on parental income and parents are expected to top up the loans.
I think it's horribly unfair as no account is taken of how many other children you may have but that's just the way it is.
DS is off to San Francisco for the next year and I'm expecting the living expenses to be even higher - but we are investing in his future and i don't begrudge it.
AS far as the OP is concerned, YANBU to want to see the bill.
DS is lead tenant in his house share and they deal with all the bills together. I have never been involved in that - just send him the rent every month.

My student loan actually didn't even cover my rent, let alone food, bills, and, y'know, books, paper, printing, replacing broken shoes. I worked full day me ever summer. Couldn't always at Christmas and Easter - people don't want a student for a !month. And loits of places in umi towns don't want students just for term time. Andi was told I was excellent ctwd to do at least 50 hours a week of study. I would not have have been able to actually live if my parents hadn't helped me out - I got an allowance and had to budget myself. You don't turm18 and suddenly find endless part time jobs that will accommodate your every need and still have the time to study to vet a good enough degree to make the time worth it.

Expected to do. Stupid tablet.

It surprises me that with such high unemployment, especially youth unemployment, that people are still making ridiculous statements like "just get a part-time job".

FWIW, some university courses are Monday to Friday, 9 till 5 and students don't get the full university holidays. Fortunately, I had an extra bursary but a lot of that went on placement travel. At my university, you could be placed anywhere up to 2 hours away from your home. Not only did it cost a bomb but it ruled out evening work for a lot of people.

Just to add that in the case of parents splitting up, a lot of maintenance agreements state that payments must continue until the end of tertiary education because it is recognised that young adults are rarely 100% financially independent these days.

whatever5 it wasn't London but it was a pretty expensive city and that was in a shared flat. They stopped Housing Benefit for students the year I arrived too...

Everyone I know was supported by their parents at university, although we all had holiday jobs back at home of one kind or another to earn some extra cash.