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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To wonder why it's deemed acceptable to take children out of school for cheap holidays?

331 replies

shrunkenhead · 26/05/2014 17:15

Am I the only one who thinks it's not on to make your child miss school for the sake of a cheap holiday???

OP posts:
stripedtortoise · 27/05/2014 08:46

I whole heartily agree that holidays are a part of education.

My issue with threads like this that come up time and time again is the 'they are my kids so I can do what I want' attitude which is sort of fair enough except that it's not just YOUR kids that it's a pain in the arse for. The other kids that weren't on holiday then have to waste time whilst your kids catch up the work they've missed or don't understand what's going on in lessons.

Whole family are primary school teachers so I have some understanding of the situation. FYI.

stripedtortoise · 27/05/2014 08:48

I whole heartily agree that holidays are a part of education.

My issue with threads like this that come up time and time again is the 'they are my kids so I can do what I want' attitude which is sort of fair enough except that it's not just YOUR kids that it's a pain in the arse for. The other kids that weren't on holiday then have to waste time whilst your kids catch up the work they've missed or don't understand what's going on in lessons.

Whole family are primary school teachers so I have some understanding of the situation. FYI.

SuburbanRhonda · 27/05/2014 08:59

brdgrl

I don't think anyone on here is suggesting that children don't need rest and relaxation Confused

Clearly the UN Declaration doesn't apply to girls, though Wink

SuburbanRhonda · 27/05/2014 09:06

I whole heartily agree that holidays are a part of education.

You could argue that pretty much everything a child does is part of their education in a general sense, including watching the TV and playing computer games. I think it's a lame excuse for taking children out of school. "We want a cheaper holiday" is at least honest.

rallytog1 · 27/05/2014 09:07

There is a bit of misinterpretation of the UN declaration here! The right to rest and relaxation is intended to cover things like children going to school all day and then being forced to do manual labour all night (which happens in many places). It is not intended to suggest that all children have an enshrined right to a fortnight in Lanzarote every year!

rallytog1 · 27/05/2014 09:09

Play and recreation, sorry. Flipping and autocorrect, although it wasn't a million miles awaiting in this case.

Mrsjayy · 27/05/2014 09:10

Oh and folk sometimes say it sets a bad example ime it didnt dd has never been off work or uni cos she fancied tbrowing a sickie

SuburbanRhonda · 27/05/2014 09:17

I think the "bad example" argument appears on threads where the OP is actually asking whether she should take her children out of school for a cheaper holiday.

It's then you get posters saying "Just lie and tell them she's ill", which definitely sets a bad example.

SuburbanRhonda · 27/05/2014 09:19

And mrsjayy how do you know she's never taken a day off uni? Did she live at home? And even if she left the house, how do you know she didn't skip lectures (voice of experience here) Wink

Mrsjayy · 27/05/2014 09:19

Yeah you are right I would never lie about going on holiday

Impatientismymiddlename · 27/05/2014 09:22

The fines that can be imposed for taking holidays in term time are not enough of a deterrent to prevent it because the holiday savings are more significant than the fines.

I don't agree with people going on holidays during term time (unless there are exceptional circumstances such as a child with special needs who can only go away during quieter times or a family with somebody in the armed forces who only gets a few weeks at home each year and other such unavoidable reasons). However, I also don't agree with criminalising people for not paying the fines related to school attendance as criminal proceedings are too expensive.
I would much prefer a system where an independent body is asked to authorise holidays based on exceptional circumstances with a right of 1 appeal for refusals. If a family then takes children out during term time for an unauthorised holiday they should risk their school place going to the next person on the waiting list. If you are not prepared to stick to the rules laid out by the school / education system then your place in that school should not be guaranteed.

SuburbanRhonda · 27/05/2014 09:27

I agree with a lot of what you say impatient, but my guess is that an independent panel would (a) be just as expensive as five minutes in a magistrate's court, if not more so, and (b) not have the knowledge about families' situations that many head teachers have, and which informs their decision to authorise an absence or not.

Damnautocorrect · 27/05/2014 09:28

When I was at school (thirty years ago) no one took kids out of school for a holiday. It wasn't even thought of (unless you were a forces child). If you couldn't afford a holiday you didn't go on one. I don't remember the 'it's my right to a holiday' attitude.

I'm not saying it was better that way or not just interested why it's regarded differently now.

Ragwort · 27/05/2014 09:29

I don't like the 'entitlement' attitude that thinks a holiday is essential, but that's just me Grin. really can't stand family holidays.

I get equally irritated by school 'trips' to Alton Towers (yes, really at my DS's school Hmm), last few days of terms doing nothing more taxing than watching a DVD and teachers' strikes - yes, I know that is contraversial.

But I've given up stressing about it all now, life's too short Smile.

SuburbanRhonda · 27/05/2014 09:29

Also, with so many schools either being forced to become academies or choosing to become one, they can opt not to buy into such a service and keep it in-house, as it is at present.

Ragwort · 27/05/2014 09:29

Also agree with Damn - it was unheard of in the 60s and 70s to take holidays in term time.

soverylucky · 27/05/2014 09:32

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

calmet · 27/05/2014 09:32

Damn - I was taken out of primary school twice for holidays, about 40 years ago. We went to Butlins for a week. My dad was not allowed to take annual leave during the school holidays as it was the Company's busiest time. So it was the only way we could have a family holiday.

brdgrl · 27/05/2014 09:33

There is a bit of misinterpretation of the UN declaration here! The right to rest and relaxation is intended to cover things like children going to school all day and then being forced to do manual labour all night (which happens in many places). It is not intended to suggest that all children have an enshrined right to a fortnight in Lanzarote every year!
rallytog, I hadn't offered any interpretation, mis- or otherwise - of course the Declaration doesn't address the nature or scope of play and recreation. I brought this into it simply because people seemed so ready to dismiss the idea of leisure, in itself, as a right. However, the fact that play and recreation are considered to be intrinsic rights does have some bearing on the argument. As some have already noted, family holidays are often dependent on the nature of work done by the parents. Children whose parents cannot holiday during term time, children whose parents would otherwise be unable to afford even a small holiday, children whose parents are agricultural workers...there are many factors which affect this situation, and if we begin from the standpoint that leisure time and leisure time with one's family is essential and not just desirable, it is a very different landscape.

But the point I italicised is this one:
The best interests of the child shall be the guiding principle of those responsible for his education and guidance; that responsibility lies in the first place with his parents.
As a parent, it is my responsibility to determine the best interests of my child in regards to her education and guidance.

SuburbanRhonda · 27/05/2014 09:34

Teachers strike to stop the wholesale destruction of the education system by the present government, ragwort, but you'll know that if you been on one of these threads before Wink

SuburbanRhonda · 27/05/2014 09:36

brdgrl

Some people might argue that if you are taking your child out of school for a cheaper holiday, you are not acting in their best interests.

I'm not sure it means you can pick and choose what rules to follow because you're the parent.

Anyway, got to go - got a day to myself as DS is in school, yes! during half term, 9-4, compulsory GCSE revision.

Do I get a sticker?

Impatientismymiddlename · 27/05/2014 09:39

suburbanrhonda I suppose I was thinking of the education welfare system taking on that role so that it is independent from the individual schools and so teachers are not put under pressure having to make the decisions. I think you are right about the schools knowing more about individual circumstances, but that isn't always the case and even when they do know a lot I don't think it is always helpful in making what should be a non biased decision.
How much does it cost to issue a fine and take a parent to court for non payment of that fine? I don't think the cost of employing somebody within education welfare would cost any more and could probably be a lot less.
I just don't feel that the current fine system is enough of a deterrent and includes too much bias due to the teachers knowing the families personally.

Shockers · 27/05/2014 09:45

I work in school and I'm taking DS (yr 9) out for a week next week. My school has different holidays to his (same LA).

On our main family holiday, DS becomes a secondary carer for DD, a role which he accepts cheerfully and without complaint. Our annual jaunt in June (yes, I take him out every year) is a chance for him to do something more challenging than the sort of activities we can manage on the holiday we have as a family.

We have been to music festivals, coasteering and canoeing in Wales, sailing in Turkey, and next week we will be cycling in France.

DH misses out because he is at home with DD, but he doesn't mind because he sees the value in these trips. DS's classmates are on a Spanish trip with school this week, having missed the last two days of school to travel by coach. DS could have gone on that trip with the school's blessing, but he's taking French as an option next year, not Spanish, so his trip with me will be far more useful. He has always brought his work up to date on our return, just as he does on the numerous days that school take him out for full days to attend water polo tournaments. He has probably lost less than a week in sick days during his whole time at school.

We're still getting fined £120 though.

He's a hardworking lad who isn't struggling academically. He's brilliant with his sister, but she takes a lot of our time... this is his time.

brdgrl · 27/05/2014 09:48

Some people might argue that if you are taking your child out of school for a cheaper holiday, you are not acting in their best interests.

And those people would be wrong.

goldopals · 27/05/2014 09:51

It depends on the individual circumstance. With struggling kids, it can be impossible for them to catch up. However sometimes these experiences are valuable. I was 10 or 11 when we missed school for two weeks to go on a holiday which came soon after a family tragedy. I was ahead and had no issues whatsoever catching up, but have taught children who have large gaps because of family holidays