To think school trips are too expensive?

[lucyhoward]

My son has just come home from school for half term with a letter about a school watersports trip in France next summer. Whilst I am sure it will be great fun I am not sure whether we can justify the £500 price tag. By the time we have sent spending money and paid for any kit they will need we will be lucky to have change from £600 I imagine.

Is this even something schools should be getting involved in? Surely holidays should be a family thing?

Oh come on! A few phrases are springing to mind e.g. "race to the bottom", "I can't have these things so no one else should have them either."

I wish to goodness I had a straight spine and a working reproductive system, but I don't. I don't think no one else should have them because I can't.

Schools are not acting as travel agents FFS! They are offering children opportunities.

you then feel guilty when their friends are going but what do you do

Actually, I think that might be where the different perspectives from posters are coming from. I do not feel guilty if I can't afford to give my child something that another child has.

My ds wanted a ps4 last Christmas and I said ok until I checked the price. Then I told him we couldn't afford it and to think again. There are loads of things that other children have that we don't, due to finances. And there are probably luxuries that we have that others can't afford.

There will always be someone richer and someone poorer. Understanding and accepting that is how to make our children happy, not begrudging others.

What fairenuff just said I refuse and refused to give my children things and trips because their friends had it never felt guilty ever

Exactly. So many people now are terrified to just say "Sorry, we can't afford it."

There's the people for whom it is a drop in the ocean and can pay no problem, there's people for whom it is a straight no because there isn't a spare penny in the pot after bills are paid.

Then there's the 'well it's v expensive but if we saved a bit here and there and didn't buy this that or the other we could just manage it' people. They are the ones that have to make a huge decision and worry if it is the right one.

DS is going on a concert tour abroad at the end of the sumer term.

It is one of many, many alternatives for that particular week - the whole school is off-timetable. There are curriculum trips (free or low cost), in school activities from cookery and fashion through to in-depth sport coaching (all free), day trips for cross-age-group activities (e.g. climbing, karting etc) in the £25ish price range, low cost camping for the week, high cost languages trips, concert tour etc.

Although it is obviously still not 'fair' that some children will go to St Petersburg on a Russian trip, and others will spend 2 days on curriculum trips and 3 days on free in-school activities, I do see it as a better way of arranging it than having trips throughout the year, with some children missing several chunks of school while others miss out entirely. And every family can put together an affordable plan for them - last year DS did 2 curriculum trips at a fiver apiece, 2 free in-school days and 1 £25 trip, next year he will probably do something similar, but this time he's doing the 'once every 5 years' concert tour.

My ds is in year 6, primary in quite a deprived area, he's going to pgl at the end of june for 4nights/5days and has cost £199 and maximum spending money is £15.
The parent's were informed of this in September and were given payment cards to spread the cost if they wished, which many did.
This trip will be the 3rd one my ds has gone on but the longest, he cant wait!
We cant afford a holiday this year as were moving house so i know my ds Will still have a little break.i never went abroad until i was 11 but my ds thinks everybody is jetting off somewhere except him and my best holidays as a child were to butlins pwhlleli:)

I have 4 children. I agree with those who say school trips offer children opportunities that they would not otherwise get. DD1 wants to go to New York in y10. There is no way we could afford to go to New York as a family, so we will save the money for her to go, and for her siblings to go when their turn comes. However, it is the ONLY residential she will be able to go on during secondary school because they offer a residential every year (sometimes twice a year), and we simply cannot afford it for 4 children.

What I would find helpful is, if at the start of secondary school, they give us a rough idea of which trips will be offered in which year, and the approximate costs. We can then sit down with the DC and decide which one/s they/we feel would be most beneficial. Unfortunately, at the moment, we have no idea what will be offered and so we have to take a gamble on which ones to go for and which ones to swerve.

I couldn't imagine how gutted I'd be if my parents couldn't afford it, all my friends were going and having fun and I'm in a classroom.

These very expensive trips normally take place in the holidays so no one is left sitting in a classroom.

It seems from this thread that the issue some people have is that they don't like saying no to their kids, and thus don't want to have to be put in the position where they have to say no.

With teenagers, if they're that desperate to go, then couldn't they earn some money themselves to put towards it?

I never went on any of these as a child, my daughter goes on all of them.

We do lots of weekends away and day trips but rarely have family holidays away. We can afford to send her away, it's a lot more money for 3 of us to go. Plus I firmly believe that as an only child she benefits from being with other adults and children so this gives her something we can't.

I think the best idea is when schools offer a range of trips. DD has been to India on world challenge, Pompeii and Rome and water sports trip etc. none of these were trips we could afford as a family. The whole year group also went to France for a couple of days 2 years running, the second was a battlefields trip. The school subsidised it for those who couldn't afford it.

The flip side is DD2's school which only offer trips to a small hand picked selection of kids - normally the same ones each year as a reward. About 20 go - the school has over 1500 pupils!

My sister and I were told at the beginning of secondary school that we could have one trip abroad. Some of our friends had more. That's life.

I really dont get the argument that these trips are the only opportunities for young people to go abroad. It isnt Brigadoon! There will still be a whole world to explore when they leave education and earn a wage so can choose to take themselves away.

If the trip isnt educational then I dont see why the school is wasting a nanosecond of time on it. If the trip is educational then it should be available to all. We already have a two tier education system: state and private. State should not be then sub-divided into the affords and the cant affords.

If schools want to get involved in trips which are only available to a well-healed minority then they should be damn sure they are absolutely perfect in all the areas of education which are there for all first.

I totally agree, OP. All of the activities offered by state schools should be inclusive, and these expensive trips are not inclusive - they are exclusive to a small number of pupils (depending on your catchment demographic) - in our High School it's the same set of middle class kids who go abroad year after year, while the ones on EMA etc stay behind - they have no more chance to go to Spain on a watersports holidays (FFS) than they do of going to Mars. Teenagers will not suffer or come to any harm if they don't go on school trips abroad.

As for the claim that these holidays always take place in the school holidays - not up here in Scotland they don't.

I don't know how the teachers have the time to take the children away.

I have seen it on MN that even during the school holidays teachers are flat out with planning and marking.

So the question I pose is that as well as the children missing out on the trip, is their education also being affected by a teacher who is tired and not prepared.

Public school should be inclusive of all pupils and no matter how much you save, if the car breaks down a week before that letter comes home then even after saving for years to afford this trip then the money will go into fixing the car.

Icansee,

3 colleagues of mine took some children on a residential last week. They left on a Friday, and came back on Monday night. They received no extra payment whatsoever for being away for the weekend, and were expected to teach their classes as normal for the remainder of the week, as well as having to leave planning for Friday and Monday. In practise, this meant that they planned for 2 weeks the weekend before the trip, picked up a pile of books on their return late Monday night to check on the progress made while they were away, and adapted their plans accordingly before coming in on Tuesday.

So no, rationally, teachers don't have time to take pupils away - unless it is a full year group residential, or a full school off-timetable week. However, because it is seen as a great opportunity for the pupils, teachers are expected to do extra voluntary work (as well as being on duty 24 hours per day while away) to make it possible.

unless it is a full year group residential, or a full school off-timetable week

What about the trips which aren't the above? How do they manage to schedule those trips into their teaching time?

All of the school trips my DC has been on have been fantastic value, I really can't see how the school could make them any cheaper than they already are. No they are not 'cheap' as such but priced sensibly.
Our school is in an affluent area but does offer financial assistance for families that may not be able to pay full cost. (I know this as one of my daughters friends parents was offered this on the most recent school trip.
Our sixth formers this year are doing a tour of Japan - the cost was approx £7k per child but there was over a year to pay and truly it would be pretty much impossible to do everything they are doing any cheaper (quite a specialist trip so don't want to go into too much detail) it is clear that by travelling as a group they have been able to reduce costs quite significantly - now obviously this is not the run of the mill school trip but they always try to make the 6th year trip a bit special (south pole, Russia etc)
My DC has just returned from a week in Barcelona - the cost to us was under £1500 - great value for everything that was included and not overpriced IMO.
I do appreciate there will be a small number of families that cannot afford to send their children on these trips but this is where the schools assistance programme is fantastic - my friends DC went on the same trip and only had to pay 20% - the rest came out of the school fund.

The first paragraph of my post was about a trip that didn't fit into those 2 categories. The school employed supply teachers to cover classes directly, but the teachers who went away were required to plan for the supply teachers, to supervise children 24 hours a day over a weekend, then to come back to pick up books to mark, adapt planning and teach less than 12 hours after arriving home.

Many things in life aren't fair. Children cope.

Are we about to see an item on Good Morning Britain, or something in the DM about this, do you reckon?

I understand if it's a weekend trip - but if the trip is during the week then what happens to the other classes while they are away, and how do they ensure that teaching time is made up?

Frank - there are no school funds in any school I know which would fund the cost of children going abroad, and rightly so. School funds should go on things that directly impact on and improve the school - not fund jollies.

DD's school go in the holidays.

Sir, Sorry, i don't seem to be posting very cearly today.

the teachers in questiopn were away on friday and Monday. Their classes were taught by supply teachers in their absence - so no teaching time was lost for those who remained in school as the supply teachers delivered lessons planned by the teachers.

For the children who were away - some of whom I teach - there is an expectation of catching up critical bits, for example sending home a homework based in the maths missed.