to think it proves lots of people want change

[adsy]

That ukip are making such huge gains in the elections.
If mnetters could temper their hysteria of screaming racism, I think it is a clear indication that the fundamental principals of the party of no toEurope and no to continued mass immigration are very important to a lot of people

On the bright side UKIP will split the Tory vote and allow labour to win the next general election.

'I can't see disaffected Labour voters who've switched to UKIP being too thrilled if UKIP does a deal with the Tories.'

I agree and Tory MP Mark Field said today that he doesn't think it will happen because there is nothing in it for UKIP.

But I think there will end up being so much in it for the Tories that they will have to make a good deal and then it will happen.

Yes Lumpy, I hope so, too. Although the Tories are historically quite good at re-grouping & re-absorbing the Fruitcake Vote.

It's like watching the Terminator slurping up stray bits of molten gloop after having a foot lopped off.

So no room for complacency just yet...

But people have never voted the same way at the Euros (or even the locals) as they do for Westminster, or there would be UKIP MPs.

If Westminster had a PR system, maybe? But it doesn't. Even so, people don't vote uniformly in elections for different levels of government. God knows I voted differently for locals and Euros, based on whose platform I thought was the best proposition. So in the absence of any game changer, the most this will do is split the Conservatives - and the more high profile Tories defect to UKIP, the less attractive they will be to disaffected Labour supporters.

I voted completely differently in the local and Euro elections to how I intend to vote in the General Election.

In the general election people will be choosing between Labour and the Tories. I never imagined 4 years ago there was any hope of the Tories getting in but they are doing amazingly well considering, which is brilliant.

I just wish labour would come out and nail their colours to the mask.

"But people have never voted the same way at the Euros (or even the locals) as they do for Westminster, or there would be UKIP MPs.

If Westminster had a PR system, maybe?"

Exactly, it is only because of our voting system which is unjust and unrepresentative. Natalie Bennett of the Greens said our system is "broken". It does not represent the true wishes of the people. It will have to change sometime, it is just a question of when.

"So in the absence of any game changer, the most this will do is split the Conservatives - and the more high profile Tories defect to UKIP, the less attractive they will be to disaffected Labour supporters."

I think you are underestimating the disaffection out there. The Tories will leak more votes because real Tories don't believe Cameron is a Tory ans as UKIP's polling rises, Labour voters will switch to UKIP because they don't like the metroplotan elite PPEs who run Labour. At the moment the news is telling us that Miliband is being attacked by some of his own party. But I think the real panic will start to set in in teh Tory Party, because the tories will not be able to win their disaffected voters back whereas Labour might.

Then the Tories will have to do a deal, and Farage has alredy told the world that he is ready to deal with the devil, so a deal will be done and if it is a deal that takes the best UKIP policies, then Labour will use, because they can't out UKIP UKIP.

Will the Etonians swalllow their pride? They will have to, because they will be told to by their financial backers when they start reading the polls.

I won't be voting either Tory, Labour or LD in the general election. I might vote Labour if Ed goes and they start talking sense but otherwise no chance.

'Will the Etonians swalllow their pride?'

Their chums in the media can't save them. They all threw the kitchen sink at UKIP and it had the opposite effect. They are now calling it "the Farage effect". The Etonians are apparently learning how to drink pints. But it's too late. Sunday night will tell us how bad it is likely to get.

I am so glad this is all being debated properly now. 4 years too late, though, even on mumsnet.

Farage has alredy told the world that he is ready to deal with the devil

Yeah. Real man of principle there.

If it is not an earthquake, but a small tremor, that is good enough for me.

'Yeah. Real man of principle there.'

He is ready ti sup with the devil, to hold his nose and talk to the spinners for the sake of principle, for an idea, for the country, to give the people a say about whether they want to stay in the EU.

He won't like doing it. The Etonians don't drink pints. He won't be in Essex in a saloon bar, he will have to go to the Bullingdon Club. But he is prepared to do even that for the people.

snoofle, all of the spinners are hoping it will be a small tremor, but they are in for a shock tomorrow night, I think it will be an earthquake.

They might not have to wait till next year before the fox enters the hen house or at least scratches at the door. I hope it will shake the lot of them out of their smug complacency and then it will have achieved something.

I agree with you on the voting system, FPTP is the worst of all worlds. But it's the reality.

I think you're underestimating how much past Labour voters loathe the Thatcherite wing of the Conservative party. And if UKIP starts to look too much like that part of the party due to a Conservative split (v possible) it will alienate those disaffected Labour voters who may look somewhere else again. Particularly if UKIP's future employment policies are anything like in the last manifesto, the combination would make many feel it looked like it was all cooked up by the Thatcherites.

Claig is right, there is no going back to the Tories for most UKIP voters. once you understand that thus is all about the transfer of power to Brussels and the loss of sovereignty there is nothing that the Tories or the others can offer you to make you go back.

The Tories latest spin is 'only we can deliver a referendums'. But guess what Dave, nobody believes you any more more you yourself gave no conviction about the need for a referendum.
that's the difference between the Tories and UKIP, the Ukippers actually have a cause to believe in. The Tories just gave a Power for powers sake attitude with no real idea of what go do with their power-just a need to say the right words in an attempt to keep power. No conviction

He is ready ti sup with the devil, to hold his nose and talk to the spinners for the sake of principle, for an idea, for the country, to give the people a say about whether they want to stay in the EU

He'll do it to benefit Nigel Farage. For personal glory. If you think anything else you are deluded.

Sooty. I think you're wrong in thinking that Farage us on a megalomaniac cal power trip. He's actually stood down as party leader once before. He wouldn't have done that if he was power-crazed. I trust him to do everything that's possible to secure this referendum. I do believe he believes in this cause and that he us not a career politician just dreaming uk the next thing that will keep him in power. He has achieved his place in the history books

" No conviction"

That sums it up. That is it.

No conviction. Just spin.

That is the problem with our politics because the actors don't care about the people. It is the same thing as we are seeing in Scotland. The actors want to "love bomb" the Scots. Unbelievably patronising, but that is all they have got. No conviction.

The reason people like Farage is because they believe him, they trust him because he has conviction. He says stuff that is unpopular with the media because he believes it. He saud "the EU has blood on its hands over Ukraine" and every toady came out of the woodwork and tried to give him a kicking for daring to say it, but he believed it. And that is why an evergrowing number of people believe him.

WetAugust I think we'll have to agree to disagree on that one.

In any case I don't really think they'll be doing a deal with anyone. They've made a ripple which will cause the major parties to look at their campaigns and messages and how they come over to the public.

UKIP are nevertheless a minority who might possibly win a Westminster seat come the election but won't wield any real power or influence. They might just split the vote and make Labour's return to Westminster a bit easier.

What were all forgetting here is that elections have been held throughout the EU and tomorrow's results will show an increase in the anti EU parties across Europe. It's not just the UK that has a large Euro sceptic constituency

That should make treaty renegotiation a bit easier, shouldn't it?

All Dave has to do is offer a referendum and then he's won the next election.