to think it proves lots of people want change

[adsy]

That ukip are making such huge gains in the elections.
If mnetters could temper their hysteria of screaming racism, I think it is a clear indication that the fundamental principals of the party of no toEurope and no to continued mass immigration are very important to a lot of people

22honey I'm not comfortable with you essentially stating that Pakistani culture condones rape. I'm sorry you had such terrible experiences but I have Pakistani friends and I don't recognise what you describe in the lovely people I know.

I cannot believe that old chestnut is all ya got.

I'm sorry mate. It's not my fault you're a hackneyed, threadbare old cliche of a human being :(

22honey, like these men, who are neither white nor British?

Careful with your sweeping generalisations, there.

For what its worth, my gran is asian and I am not racist at all. I'm discussing culture here, nothing to do with race or skin colour. There are a lot of uneducated immigrants up here from backward parts of rural pakistan ie Murpuri, this particular group have very strange cultural values that have indirectly destroyed the lives of many British young girls

You sound incredibly bitter and a rather nasty person to be honest.

I am only 22 years old, how on earth is what happened in the past with regards to former british colonies have anything to do with me? Are you saying I deserve what happened to me because of that?

You are disgusting and come across 'racist' yourself!

Not pakistani culture, but the culture of many people from rural areas of the country that are still stuck in medieval times...not everyone from the same country has the same 'culture'!

I was merely pointing out one of the many reasons some people have latched onto immigration as 'the problem'. I dont even think it is the problem myself and have said this several times.

Never said anyones culture condones rape either, what a word twister.

No what white men do instead is open sexual abuse of women and girls relying on their wealth and power to avoid prosecution. I mean it's not like there are a whole bunch of old men getting in trouble for historical sexual abuse and rapes is it.

"If you're referring to the "culture" of invading and colonising other countries and exploiting their resources then yes, you are correct."
Yes, the same culture that every other country in the world had at the time.

Honey you outright said that rape of young girls isn't shameful in their culture. I'm not twisting anything.

Jessy sigh that is a paedophile ring, all the victims were little children. The ones I am talking about are not paedophiles they specifically target vulnerable teenage girls. Utterly disgusting I have to say the story you posted. Its well known lots of online paedophiles are white.

Stop trying to skirt around the specific issue which has been discussed at long lengths around the time the men from Rochdale were all arrested. Its completely different to internet paedophile rings.

For a start the gangs of pakistani men pretty much all include uncles, brothers, dads etc. These paedophile rings are people who meet likeminded perverts on the internet in places specific for paedophiles and meet up from there. They don't have a whole family and friends in their area who ascribe to the same morals.

We are bringing Harris, Saville, DLT etc to trial. In Pakistan (as an example) this would never happen. Powerful men would never be prosecuted for abusing girls from poor families.

Fasttouch thats a completely separate issue. Just because one thing is happening doesnt mean something else shouldn't be discussed.

Frankly, targeting vulnerable teenage girls, assuming those girls are underage, makes you a paedophile. I think trying to separate the issue into issues of culture or race, rather than deed, is deeply problematic as it is rarely reciprocal with majority ethnic populations and can tend to demonise wider cultures without foundation.

Tucson - I was under the impression 22honey was talking about groups living in this country whose 'cultures' make it acceptable to target young girls - not in Pakistan? I'm sure she'll tell me if I'm mistaken.

That said, gang rape of adult women is not exactly unheard of among white Britons, either.

22honey the point a number of people are making is that sexual assault is normalised in a wide variety of social structures. Some white, some not, some privileged, some not. When it's perpetrated by people from minority and immigrant background I think it tends to act as a diversion from acts and causes themselves and the focus becomes 'what is wrong with Pakistani/Iranian/Lebanese/blank cultures that this is ok?', while you don't hear much of 'what is it about white culture that makes rape so acceptable?'

Whistle we are in the now, not in the past. History is neither here nor there to the culture of the now. And the 'British' (western) one has evolved and the culture in many other countries has not yet. Theres nothing 'racist' about pointing this out. Many people worry about the affect a huge influx of people from sexist medieval cultures will have on their children's lives, and they have every right.

Jassy no it doesnt, it would technically make one a hebephile.

I couldnt care less, there is something else up when many sex offenders also have willing participants in their families and local communities. Say what you like, this is NOT the case with western paedophiles.

You really don't do yourselves any favours you know. You are getting upset that people are voting for UKIP etc, yet you still pull out the old chestnuts that annoy these types of voters the most, like 'your a racist' or trying to quash any discussion of cultural issues with 'the white people do it too!'...

Stop shooting yourselves in the foot. Honestly some of the arguments and the attitude on here might have even tempted me to vote for UKIP (if it wasnt for their sexist policies that is, it'll be Sharia Law before we know it!)

' is that sexual assault is normalised in a wide variety of social structures'

Yes, and all of those should be examined and scrutinized for reasons and hopefully prevention. Which means not trying to quash discussion of potential culture problems with 'the white people do it too!'.

I would welcome discussion into why western paedophiles meeting eachother on chatrooms happens for example(and why they cant seem to easily find willing participants in their cousins, uncles etc like it seems certain other sections of sex offenders can)

Sunshinecity17... The unskilled labourer or the person being bumped off the top if the housing list voting UKIP...

They've voted for a party that wants a flat tax rate, that's not going to benefit them, they've voted for a party that wants to remove the laws giving them paid holidays, and their wives lower maternity pay, that wants to privatise the NHS - all of those things are going to massively affect an unskilled labourer.

They've voted for a party who wants to prioritise housing for people who live where their grandparents were born - which means most people will still be at the bottom of the housing list.

Prioritising immigration over other policies that affect local government in a local government election doesn't exactly seem clever.

Calling UKIP supporters racist is not pulling the old chestnut.

'your a racist' is said to anyone that may even express any kind of dismay at immigration levels or suggest they be lowered. Its said about anyone who may question aspects of other countries cultural values, despite culture having sod all to do with race.

Its not something merely doled out to UKIP supporters, but actively used to oppress the feelings and thoughts of tons of British people. They are getting sick of it, and being told they are racist just isn't working anymore.

tabulah thats the reasons why I'd never vote for them...private NHS, lower maternity pay what a fucking joke of a party!

22honey, please point out anywhere in any post where I've called anyone a racist. I agree it's unhelpful unless backed up with evidence.

I think your earlier characterisation of the Rochdale issue as a 'cultural' thing is intensely problematic and the entire public response to the Rochdale crimes served to miss the real issues and instead became fixated on race as the sole issue. You need to make up your mind - are we talking paedophile or all sex offenders? You also need to do a but more research on the profiles of sex offenders as you are trotting out some quite lazy stereotypes - white men online, Asian men in family structures. The real picture is predictably a great deal more complex, and I suspect you know it.

And saying culture has sod all to do with race is frankly ignorant and quite offensive.

Stomach seems to have settled despite the quite nasty turn this thread had taken, so I'm going to sleep. Thanks to those on all sides of the debate who brought reasoned and evidenced arguments and thoughts, it was a refreshing change.

I just don't understand why someone who really wants out of the EU would vote ukip. They won't be in a position to deliver on their promise and mainly take votes from the only party that gives the option to come out.

The policies which Ukip have been coming up with will run this country into the ground. Their policies will hurt low/average income families the worst.

Vote for them if you want but it might be best to actually look at all your voting for.

Saying you'd be scared if Romanians moved in next to you is not expressing an opinion on immigration policy, it's racist. Maybe it offends you that I use the term but I do believe I'm using it correctly. Nighty night.