to think it proves lots of people want change

[adsy]

That ukip are making such huge gains in the elections.
If mnetters could temper their hysteria of screaming racism, I think it is a clear indication that the fundamental principals of the party of no toEurope and no to continued mass immigration are very important to a lot of people

There is also no denying that rapid population growth of any kind puts a strain on public services (working in schools I see that at first hand). Labour and the Tories need to get much better at putting forward a vision for how best to deal with this

Of course in absolute terms the UK benefits massively from immigration

I think the question is how much immigration do we actually need?

"Of course in absolute terms the UK benefits massively from immigration"

Define "the UK". The people in the UK? All of them? Most of them?

'You specifically mentioned Europe 22honey in your post at 17:50.'

The vast majority of European countries do not have a system as generous as ours. So even if I was entitled to it, I would barely get anything compared to what people get when they come here.

Rainbunny

The only feedback I can give you is that your summary is right.

But some countries have more generous systems than here, 22honey. So what's to stop you going there?

Comments like 'what's wrong with people ' are comments made on question time and in the media as a whole and it's like a red rag to a bull

The vast majority of European countries do not have a system as generous as ours. So even if I was entitled to it, I would barely get anything compared to what people get when they come here

No one seems to know this though!

There is no menu anywhere....rather than bandying back and forth, lets see figures like for like!

If someone wants to put to bed the argument that people come here for our benefits and services, put it all in a clear way, like for like

I've been trying to find something like this myself, but it's fiendishly complicated and each "benefit" has endless ifs and buts. For example, just on housing the situation changes council by council, and exceptions for groups such as "the destitute", "people with social care needs" and "those fleeing domestic violence" complicate it further

I do get where you're coming from, but it's hard to see how it can all be presented in one place, at least in something which wouldn't fill several volumes

You look for the figures bornfree if you want them. Don't be so lazy.

Tuscon

You seem to want to compare like for like in exact terms.

A qualified lawyer may end up in a second/third tier firm getting paid much less and the migrant may get offered the higher paying job. Global competition for professional jobs will certainly affect UK workers.

I haven't been impressed by the attitudes and public behaviour of many UKIP members. I could definitely say the same for other party members- the whole expenses scandal etc. But it is the small print of the UKIP 'policies' which actually sicken me. Thinly disguised homophobia and sexism towards women for a start. How any woman could think of voting for them is beside me. I met a few of the UKIP representatives and asked them not to darken my doorstep again. Freedom of speech is one thing but at least do it with intelligence and knowledge is my message to UKIP. I worry for my children's future if a party like this come to power in their lifetime although the reality is probably the fact it wouldn't last as I think they are a chaotic and inconsistent group who couldn't hold it together for very long.

So what's to stop you going there?

Well for me language is a big issue which is why I am keen to know which countries provide the same comprehensive translator service that we do with - translators to accompany me to the doctors etc AND signs written in English everywhere.

You look for the figures bornfree if you want them. Don't be so lazy

Where are the figures?

Where is the like for like table clearly showing each EU country and the offers each one has. As far as I am aware, I have never seen it.

Or learn the language?
For a non-EU migrant, English proficiency is a criteria for settlement in the UK.

Tucson

Without outing myself the trainees in a firm I work for come from all round the globe. Africa, Americas, China and only 2 British.

Of course this has an effect on the salaries of British professional workers.

Again I urge you to ask yourself why you do not see these people as immigrants and think that it only affects the working classes such as Builders etc!

Or learn the language?
For a non-EU migrant, English proficiency is a criteria for settlement in the UK

I thought we were talking about the EU? Like for like....

If I wanted to move to France, I would learn more of the language, but it takes time, I would be far happier in a country that hand held me like the UK does.

So where does it?

Thorn, I havnt voted for UKIP and I fear for my children's future regardless of who comes into power. The country is going to the dogs and there is little I can do about it.

'But some countries have more generous systems than here, 22honey. So what's to stop you going there?'

Which countries are these? Are they more generous towards immigrants aswell?

Tucsongirl

Could you tell me exactly what immigrants get for free when they come here?

Why not go on the government website and see exactly what benefits an immigrant is entitled to when they arrive. You may be surprised.

'hinly disguised homophobia and sexism towards women'

Yes, this is generally the reason I wouldnt and havnt voted for them. Its crap enough for (poor) women in this country anyway, we dont need anyone making it worse for us.

"Again I urge you to ask yourself why you do not see these people as immigrants and think that it only affects the working classes such as Builders etc!"

Again, I do see these people as immigrants. But I do think immigration has a far more negative affect on working-class people than it does on middle-class people.

I ask you, if immigration brings down the wages of middle-class people just as much as it does the wages of working-class people, who exactly is benefitting from immigration? And why was there a widening gap between rich and poor at the same time as immigration was at its height?

'Why not go on the government website and see exactly what benefits an immigrant is entitled to when they arrive. You may be surprised.'

We all know that these have been drastically changed in the last few years because so many people were frothing at the mouth with the amount of arse wiping foreigners got when they came here. I think most people know we are not as generous these days? Makes no difference to the catastrophic effect previous policies have already had.

But if you're worried about the widening gap between rich and poor why on earth would anyone vote UKIP.

The introduction of a flat tax would only benefit the rich and the poor would be far worse off.

I look forward to the day all those people shouting racism are on here bemoaning the fact that they cant get a school place for their child, a hospital bed for their sick mother, a job for their husband or a place to live for their adult children.

The fact is we are a small island and we cant cater for everyone who wants to come here, especially those who just want a free ride. I dont think all those people living in camps in France waiting for a chance to get here are all lawyers, doctors etc.

I would never expect UKIP to be running this country but I think a lot of people who voted for them did so because they are fed up with the lies and false promises of the 3 main parties. Maybe UKIP's popularity will wake these other parties up to what the people of this country are worried about it might just frighten them into realising that it is time for some changes.

Oh, one more thing, no one ever won an argument by name calling!

Honey22
This is what you wrote "Am I able to just get up and move to another country and get all of those things for free? Will I get free education, healthcare, housing and food if I swan off to even another European country? No. So why should people be happy about foreigners being able to do that here?"

Now you are saying "We all know that these have been drastically changed in the last few years"

Why did you write that if you know immigrants don't just get benefits for arriving in the country?