Strong Facebook comments pro and anti political parties

[Iwanttovoteukip]

My personal political views mean I want to vote for UKIP. I am also anti the Green party due to the cockup they have made in Brighton. This is my view. I realise that other people have different views but we live in a democracy so we should all vote for who we want.

On Facebook there have been half a dozen people who have been spouting strong views that are very anti UKIP. Lots of smearing a few times a day. The said same people have been actively pro Green over the last few days.

I would never put negative comments on their comments as I don't think it is the correct medium for a political debate. However, I'm feeling 'bullied' (this is perhaps the wrong explanation) by all their rhetoric. Are they being unreasonable?

oh, right, that's OK then.

Yes it is.

You sure showed me

Gardening - I personally would just ask if they've read x individual policy and do they realize that that's who they're supporting...and if they did I'd quietly distance myself, but I can completely understand the more strident people posting things.

I find it horrifying that people are willing to vote for a party who produced things like their 2010 manifesto.

There are a few people on my facebook posting very strong anti Britain First comments and I totally understand it as they live in communities where Britain First are arranging conversion protests in mosques.

I think anyone supporting a party who are harassing people as they worship or print a manifesto saying that people with learning disabilities should live in separate communities should either be be completely happy with their choice to support that party or rethinking it - because they are such extreme views...it's not the same as people being on the other side of labour or conservative views.

I was going to vote Conservative but changed to UKIP at the last minute as a result of David Cameron refusing to engage in the immigration debate. As far as i'm concerned the Conservatives have a year to prove that they are representing people rather than ruling them.

Because of the anti UKip feeling from some quarters i wouldn't post it on Facebook. I would expect to get lashed, however on Twitter i feel happy to engage in discussion.

MrsStatham - genuine question. I understand the immigraion issues and that is how UKIP are winning votes, but how do you feel about all the other things they stand for? Making jokes about shooting gay people, legalising a man to rape his wife etc. Is the immigraion issue worth it to you or do you support those views also?

Just trying to understand how anyone can support them when these are their beliefs. I mean you have to laugh that Farage stated UKIP don't do well in London because they are intelligent there, I was under the impression most voters were not aware of their other policies but it seems they are.

People vote for parties whose main policies match their ideals and values - which is why UKIP (imo) has attracted so many votes. Their 'jokes' do not form party policies, as far as I'm aware - they are the (extreme and obscene) views of certain members, but their policies on immigration and the EU are what people vote for.

An analogy from north of the border is this - there are voters who don't like Alex Salmond and his party's policies, but want independence because they feel Westminster has let them down. They plan to vote for the SNP in an attempt to get an independent Scotland, and once we have this (god forbid) will go back to voting for the party they've always voted for. It's the same with UKIP - vote for them, get them to force the changes to the EU and immigration, go back to their usual voting patterns.

SirChenjin, while I respect you're Better Together (I am someone who's strongly pro-independence), voting for the Nats won't get anyone an independent Scotland any faster. We already have the independence referendum coming up. I don't agree that's the reason

The SNP are getting more votes because they have a reasonably stable record in government (always helpful) and because Labour are struggling to present a coherent vision in Scotland. As you know the Tory vote here is minuscule and UKIP are really nowhere. The Lib Dems have a handful of strongholds but the Coalition has harmed their image.

FWIW I wouldn't defriend anyone for being in favour of Better Together or even UKIP automatically, if they were real friends and not just FB friends. I'd want to know why they liked those things. (It would be a bit weird, I have "strong left-wing and socialist views" and a lot of my mates do too :D) However, no-one's being bullied or picked on for politics on either side. They're stating their strong opinions and tbh I would far rather have that than everyone mouse-like agreeing or not saying anything against the ruling party because they must know what's best for them and posters don't want to hurt anyone's feelings anyway.

UKIP is doing the one thing that none of the other parties are prepared to do and that is to represent the people rather than rule them. Their policies need tightening up before the 2015GE but the ultimate goal is to get a referendum on our membership of Europe.

Farage himself is a charismatic party leader who had a great career before he turned to politics. Unlike our present shower who are all of the political class and have had no life experience or career success. Farage has unfortunately attracted some loose cannons but i hope that as a young party it will evolve to shake off some of the dinosaurs. However Maternity leave will always be a sticking point, sme owners struggle greatly with it and some compromise will have to be reached.

I've posted extremely strong anti-views about UKIP on my fb page, it's my page and it's my own views. I take the view that if people are unhappy with what is on my page, they can delete or hide me. It is not mandatory to view anyone's page.

MrsStatham, they need to get some policies before 2015! Seriously, what have they got which makes any sense? There needs to be more to a party's policies than "No more foreigners!" and "Out of the EU!" How would they govern on any other level absent clear thinking on other issues?

For a start, I'd be interested to know what withdrawal from the EU would mean for agricultural subsidies. As a large part of Scotland is rural, subsidies and other schemes are a very important issue here. How will we govern fisheries, etc? At the moment we do this by an uneasy negotiation brokered with the EU. What happens then when we leave it?

That's just the beginning. Another example, trade union rights under UKIP? There's issues around bargaining, picketing, facilities time, check-off, possible withdrawal of the right to strike - where are they on those? I can guess, but I don't know. All we get from them is vague populist pronouncements, and the repeated assurance that Farage is a great bloke you can have a pint with. It's not enough.

Why would you feel bullied by people having a different opinion. They can write what they like. You can argue it or block them.
It's ironic that you feel bullied but want a political party that wants to segregate and bully huge swathes of the community..

Badteacher - some people are voting for the SNP because they feel that Westminster has let them down and they want to be independent so that they can make their own decisions - just as some people are voting UKIP because they feel that the main parties at Westminster have let them down and they want to be independent from Brussels. The similarities are definitely there. It doesn't mean that they support all of the SNP/UKIP policies - although quite why anyone would vote SNP to get independence and then revert back to voting for a Unionist party who doesn't want independence from the other UK countries is just mad (but then those voters are not known for their common sense).

The SNP aren't getting more votes btw - the majority of Scots still don't want independence, despite the SNP throwing millions at their campaign. They are attracting slightly more votes than they had previously - although a recent poll showed that that figure had dropped.

SirChenjin (possibly my favourite name on here, but anyway) the Nats getting more votes I think is not directly tied to independence. I don't think most people vote Nat because of a burning desire for independence, and agree the polls are a bit opaque. The referendum will decide what happens from September onwards, and the question will not be "Dae ye like the SNP, aye or naw?"

I'm a Yes voter, but not because I am a Nat (I am, in fact, a Trot. blush). The Yes vote is probably still up for grabs, but I don't think the Euro election proves anything about it. That is a vote for governance, not for independence.

I disagree. I think that people are voting for the Nats precisely because they want to be part of an independent Scotland. Quite why, given that the figures simply don't stack up and the SNP have been vague in their promises to say the least beyond "och it'll all be smashing, so it will", but fortunately there are still more of us who aren't falling for the poor chat up lines from the SNP than are.

However, my point was there are similarities between some of the SNP and UKIP voters - you may not agree with all their 'policies' (I use the term very loosely), but there are certainly voters who are using the ballot box to register their displeasure with the powers that be, whether that is Westminster or the EU.

SirChenjin, in that case surely your figures contradict themselves. If people are voting en masse for the Nats in the Euro elections (as it seems likely they have) because they want independence only, then if the SNP increase their number of votes purely on the grounds of independence it seems likely that there is a greater likelihood of independence. You can't then say that the vote for independence is dropping and people are starting to see through it.

RE the protest vote, no argument on that point. I feel a bit worried that people haven't seen through to UKIP's complete lack of policies, though...

what is it about ukip you like so much? Is it the anti women stuff, the anti gay stuff, or maybe the racist stuff?

shocking that anyone would have a problem wirh you wishing those sort of views represented in law

Not at all - the votes won't be shown until Sunday at the earliest, and I don't think the European elections ever reflect an en masse vote!

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying, or if you understand what I'm saying - which is, there are people who vote UKIP not because they are committed UKIP voters, but because they are frustrated by the policies of the other parties and the EU. Similarly there are people who don't believe in the SNP policies but are frustrated by the policies of the other parties and Westminster. However, what I find utterly confusing is why those people would vote for something as ridiculous as UKIP and the SNP to get independence from the EU and the rest of the UK - and then turn back to Unionist parties (who don't want to be independent from the EU or rUK) to sort out the resultant mess.

LOL, yes, I think we are talking past each other! Bloody politics :D

I think it's the fact you are talking about UKIP and the SNP simultaneously.They are quite different parties and I don't think an SNP vote is a protest vote. Nor is a UKIP vote automatically one, but I think it is more likely to be - UKIP have never been in gov't and have few coherent policies. The closest analogy to the UKIP protest vote would maybe the Greens?

No - I don't think it's a protest vote per se, but there are people who are voting SNP for the same reason there are people voting for UKIP, ie frustration with the main parties and wanting to be independence. Don't forget, it wasn't that long ago that the SNP hadn't been in Govt (or had any coherent policies - though some may say they still don't!)

Quite frankly, if both parties were wiped off the political map of the UK then I think the world would be a better place

I am always having debates on FB, whether they be about politics, human rights, sexism or whatever. I enjoy having these debates with people. I believe it is exactly the right place for people to engage in such discussions. They are public (well to friends) and people get to know what you believe in if you choose to contribute. How is that a bad thing?

If you are ashamed of your beliefs or do not have facts to back up your end of the debate then that is for you to think about, not for me to shut up because you don't like what I have written.

I have disagreed vehemently with people's statuses about Halal meat (apparently being given this is discriminatory ) and been asked to stop posting. I will not. If people don't like it then they can unfriend me.

Oh, and on the subject of immigration and UKIP, this video is a great one to watch

I have defriended quite a few from facebook as a result of their pro Ukip/Britain First/other racist twaddle posts. I started out trying to 'educate' them about what Ukip stand for (other than their views on immigration) but quickly came to the conclusion that they weren't interested. They are adults after all. Old enough to vote, for any party that takes their fancy.

I honesy think many are totally ignorant to what they are voting for.

YABVU - the obvious thing is to hide people, if you don't agree with their views but don't want to (or can't) engage them in debate. Simples.

It's fine to have 'personal political views' - but if you express them publically, you can't decide that they're no-one else's concern & therefore shouldn't be challenged. You don't get to vote for UKIP & they then become the boss of you forthwith, but don't have any sway over your FB friend who voted Green.

So you can either state your views openly on FB & deal with the fact that some people may find them, & by extension you, pretty objectionable, or you can keep them to yourself.

The FB friends who are posting (not 'spouting' or 'smearing', not if you are as genuine an advocate for diverse opinion as you claim) strong negative opinions on UKIP have already considered this dilemma. Presumably they have decided that they are going to express their opinion & run the risk of any Kippers they may have as FB acquaintances hiding or deleting them.

They are allowed to do that. If you don't think it's the correct medium for political discussion, you are just as allowed not to use it as such.

Anti UKIP SLURS

Now sweety, are you sure they are slurs? Because, quite frankly UKIP have plenty of bad things to say about them without people inventing SLURS.

Now, do tell what makes you think it is a good idea to vote for them?

Come on, I want to hear your reasoned argument.