To spy on my nanny?

[Pugaboo]

I think I probably am BU but I'm not sure my nanny is telling me the truth about a few things. Things don't seem to add up.

I don't want to go into a lot of detail as it will out me but it includes leaving my son to cry and/or ignoring him for long periods. So not life threatening but not what I would want for him either.

I don't want to disrupt my son too much but equally I want to be reassured she is treating him in the right way.

Seems to me the outcome you want here is for the nanny to stay, and for you to feel confident that your child is properly looked after in her care. Spying won't achieve that. So talk to her about your concerns. If you're still worried after that, explain that you're puzzled by your child's different behaviour and you're curious to see it for yourself, so you're going to video him for a couple of days. Don't do it in secret. She may, of course, refuse to work under those conditions, or resign if you insist, but that's a chance you have to take. If you film in secret you risk damaging the relationship beyond repair even if you find out she's looking after your son perfectly well.

I nannied for a family for 6 years....I sussed that I was being filmed 2 years into the role and just after they had moved house.

It didn't bother me at all as I knew I was acting professional at all times but it did tell me they didn't respect me enough.

I sought legal advice and it IS most definitely illegal to film someone if they have not been advised.

The family I worked for also had CCTV from their garage recordin the driveway but because it caught passers-by on foot on the pavement, they had to put a sign up advising.

Ignoring the usual "get rid" bollocks that's always said on these threads. Because a nanny isn't a legit employee with rights and everything

As a nanny, I would leave without notice if I discovered I was being filmed without my consent. I'm pretty certain it's illegal to film without a nannies consent anyway, but even if it's not, I'd still leave. Not because I do anything wrong, but because I wouldn't feel trusted. I also, like every other person, have embarrassing habits, and I play fight with the kids and do other things that actually, I don't feel comfortable with my employers watching. Such as, sometimes my toddler charge pulls my shirt up or down or my trousers slip a bit revealing my pants, or I run between rooms in a towel or my swimming costume before and after swimming and so on and so forth. Then the inevitable tantrums, which are difficult enough to deal with, let alone when somebody is watching your every move.

pug One of my charges is completely different with me than she is with her mother. No clue why. With me she's a lot less boisterous, will want time purely to herself, plays the same few games with me over and over, wants more iPad/telly (her crutches), etc etc. It doesn't mean that I'm not trying to interact or play new games with her, it's just how she is with me. My point being that some children are like that. Your child may sound like an entirely different child to another childcarer because they may well act completely differently.

You need to talk to her, not spy on her.

Hi Pug
12 yrs ago my office suspected theft of property and we were legally allowed to install CCTV for a period of 30 days I think before signs would have to go up. We had to have a written record of our suspicions and the recordings had to take place in a non-sensitive area (so no bathrooms etc).
I agree with Pixie - kids are different with different people, but if you have a gut instinct that something is really wrong then do something about it.
That said, if you think you have employed someone who is an advocate of controlled crying for example, and you have explicitly stated that this is not to happen, then you are in your rights to raise your concerns and should do so.
A mate had concerns and simply asked her cleaner to do some extra shifts and asked her if her son was being left to cry himself to sleep at lunchtimes. The result was an astonishing report of all day tv watching by the nanny, barefaced lies about the activities which had taken place etc etc. It does happen.

OK, so you video your nanny and actually find out she's doing a great job. Pheww! Your happy and your mind has been set to rest.

Then she finds out you've secretly videos and you clearly don't trust her and resigns ... Did you employ her through an agency, as they will probably be informed about secret filming, that plus nanny-grapevine may put off good new nannies.

I've nannied in my younger days; I know I was completely professional, but if it had been so obvious that my employer didn't trust me I'd have been out the door as quickly as I could.

What do you do if you video the nanny and find out she's basically doing fine, not leaving your baby to cry, but she's doing a few minor things you don't think are ideal - maybe nosing through your mail, reading a magazine instead of playing with the baby, on her phone a bit too much. What do you do then? Can you address those things without letting on you've been spying?

I don't think anyone should have to risk being filmed getting changed so any nanny would be within her rights to say swimming is off limits full stop.

I think it would be nice if no videoing was actually done in general but all nannies and carers assumed it might be being done and behaved accordingly. I don't know how we get to that situation though. But if I was in that job I'd assume I might be being filmed.

As for the outrage at not being trusted, I'm a bit about that. All new employers have to go on is references and interview. That's not a lot on which to base unquestioning trust from then on.

The priority really isn't the right of a good employee to feel trusted, if that comes at a price of someone being abused somewhere. OK, if you're a nanny and you know you're a good, reliable person who isn't going to abuse anyone - that's great for you and your charges. But two houses or two streets away or someone not that far away there will be some carers who are not like you and who are going to be neglecting their charges.

Should those vulnerable charges suffer, because it's considered outrageous for employers not to put blind, unquestioning faith in their employee once they've had good references and interviewed them?

Any employee is quite within their rights to turn down a job because they feel self-conscious and uncomfortable about being filmed. I can understand that, and anyone wanting to video a nanny has to be very careful, very open, and is running the risk that fewer people will want to work for them.

Even so, I don't think as a carer anyone can insist "you ought to trust me!" because if I employ someone to care for a vulnerable, nonverbal person, then I actually owe that vulnerable person the higher duty not to blindly trust carers but to check up on them pretty closely and, however I do it, to make sure that those carers are working in an environment where they know that they will not get away with neglect or abuse. So there's a balance to be struck there.

But to get back on topic, in this case OP it doesn't sound like your concerns are about fundamental neglect so much as not doing things your way. I think there are quite a few things you could try, first, as you've said and others have suggested. Things like more talking, and dropping back home unexpectedly, getting friends on board to call at odd times of the day 'to drop something off' - stuff like that. Anything that might give you more information, strengthen your instructions, and if it also gives the nanny a little of the feeling that she could be caught out if she isn't doing things your way, then that's all to the good.

Tread. But if that is the case, how are there nanny cams? You have to say that they are there?

And how are vare homes filmed and the evidence is admissable in court?

Are you a specialist lawyer in this area?

I don't think there is anything wrong with nanny cams if the nanny knows about them.

Care homes are different. You are putting a vulnerable person in someone else's care and you have no control over who they employ or how they do the job.
OP chose her nanny. She has control. I wouldn't employ someone that I didn't fully trust to the point that I needed secret surveillance. If she can't trust her own judgement she may be better with a nursery.

My first nanny was fairly mediocre, in retrospect. Not the gross misconduct / neglect issues, just really rather underwhelming.

I think the first thing for OP to do, to put her mind at rest, is some unexpected popping in / encounters. Do you have friends or family who could help with this - let themselves in with a spare key to drop off /collect stuff? Coming home about 30 minutes early is usually interesting, if you can manage that. I'm not suggesting a network of informers! Just one or two people to reassure you, or confirm your suspicions that you need to do something.

Our nanny got PG and left. It was really only when we got nanny2 that I realised how mediocre nanny1 had been.

I have once worked in community setting where we were recorded on CCTV not secretly or in places where intimate care would take place. It's a bit off putting at first but if you have 100% integrity it shouldn't bother you. I would inform her you are installing CCTV in your home and if she doesn't like it let her go, and for all future Nancy's inform them at interview you have CCTV inside your home.

It's tricky for me to pop in or ask a friend to, sometimes I get back early however and I've never noticed anything untoward. By the same token I've never noticed her paying him much attention either but then he's usually not demanding it and is busy happily playing alone, watching TV, mucking around etc - not crying (I think he was crying once but because he was ill).

In hindsight maybe I would have vetted to choose childcare from a provider more naturally aligned with my own parenting philosophy.

I'm hoping to move DS to a nursery eventually anyway as I think he will benefit from the exposure to different experiences and early years based learning etc. for various reasons I can't easily move him until next year though so I think I need to stick with it until then and work with her to make sure there's trust.

Thanks for your responses.

What is she doing if she's not paying the baby any attention?

thescience mumsnetting and spying on her boss?

Seriously op you need to have a chat. Explain in detail how you want your baby to be cared for.