To spy on my nanny?

[Pugaboo]

I think I probably am BU but I'm not sure my nanny is telling me the truth about a few things. Things don't seem to add up.

I don't want to go into a lot of detail as it will out me but it includes leaving my son to cry and/or ignoring him for long periods. So not life threatening but not what I would want for him either.

I don't want to disrupt my son too much but equally I want to be reassured she is treating him in the right way.

OP, I know you don't want to give identifying details, but I think that to offer any advice people need to know why you suspect your nanny is lying to you - has someone else told you the nanny leaves your child to cry for long periods? What are the suspicions based on? And you've spoken to her about it, and she says she never does this?

I like the idea of filming the child. If your suspicions are correct, then logically the nanny won't be in the video with the child. She will be in a different room ignoring him.

If you are wrong, then alls well that ends well.

I think the safety and wellbeing of your child is worth the potential embarrassment if you are wrong. I would say just audio isn't good enough though as she could claim she was trying to soothe him but he wouldn't settle.

I agree, would you scratch embarrassing itches in an office full of poeple? yet you think it is ok to expose a child or vulnerable adult to this behavour?

I don't think it's trapping the nanny - it's ensuring that she doesn't lose her job based on a suspicion.

As others have said, it's a place of work. I am in retail and there are cameras EVERYWHERE. I happen to know where they all are, but many of the staff don't. The presence or lack thereof of cameras should not impact on one behaving correctly, however sadly often it does.

Legally, I think you need to inform the nanny if you're going to install cameras.

I'd try coming home unexpectedly at first though.

Telling her you are going to install a nanny cam would probably be enough to ensure she is behaving properly though? Although she may start looking for a new job.

I would put in a camera but I would tell her that I've done it. Worst case is that you were right about what you thought, but she won't do it once the camera is on so your son will be better cared for. If she's a good Nanny in other respects, then give it a go. If she really doesn't like it then potentially she has something to hide and will likely leave anyway.

I wouldn't put a camera in without telling her though.

dreaming yes you're right. I think what makes me uncomfortable is the thought of someone sitting rewinding the footage one evening and watching. I'm a live-in nanny as well so the thought of being watched even when I'm not working makes me uneasy. It's a bit Big Brother for me.
Also, as a live in nanny, you become one of the family in a way. I wouldn't like the thought of my mum sitting down watching me on her laptop either!
I can see the reasoning for it during working hours, like CCTV, but the rest of the time, I don't like it. I would want to know I was being filmed during working hours though.
Also, in an office etc, you might have security staring at CCTV screens all day, but I don't think bosses would sit there in an evening replaying the previous day.

Ps, I used to work for an employment solicitor who was very, very cross when she learned that another family had filmed me for a year without me knowing. Which makes me wonder if it's legal...?

I think that I'd tell her that a friend of yours was telling you a horror story about their nanny or that usual friend of a friends cousin and arrange a meeting to go over what you expect from her and what you do not expect.

Make a list and print it our for her so that "rules" are in writing.

Tell her that you had to agree with your friend, that you wouldn't be able to have a nanny who had breached your trust look after your DC and would have to dismiss her and that you're so glad that you can talk to her about these things openly rather and can trust her rather than thinking about resorting to Nanny Cam or spying on her like other families do! ;)

If I felt the need to go out of my way to spy on a nanny, I'd get a new nanny that I felt better about. If I thought there was potential mistreatment, I would not subject my child to another day of that for the sake of evidence.

Also, a hidden camera in your own home isn't an invasion of privacy anymore than a security camera is an invasion of privacy in a retail store. There is no expectation for privacy at your work. You are paying her and have the right to know what she does on the job. If she turns out to be a good nanny and sees she's being spied on though she might leave. I'd be personally freaked out if it happened to me and refuse to work for someone like that.

What would be wrong is having a keylogger in your computer or something so you could go through her personal life that has nothing to do with work, like facebook or private emails. Or to spy on her outside of work. There's a huge difference between invading personal life and watching her work ethic.

I agree, would you scratch embarrassing itches in an office full of poeple? yet you think it is ok to expose a child or vulnerable adult to this behavour?

Umm, I leave the room to scratch any embarrassing itches/expel gas etc. I do not do it infront of people! But the point of being told there "might" be cameras in the house, you obviously have no idea where they are and whether you've just left one room only to enter another where a camera actually is that then catches you in the act of trying to retain your dignity. I thought that was an obvious point.

I doubt they will have a camera in the toilet, if that is where you are scratching embarrassing itches and expelling gas etc. I am sure you are ok there.

Unless a client happens to be using it of course

What makes you think most people aren't being "spied on" at work already? I would take it for granted that my employer has CCTV in all offices, and can / will also monitor all internet and email traffic conducted on the corporate network or through guest wifi networks. I act accordingly.

The lines are only blurred because if the nanny is live-in then the workplace is also her home. Clearly putting a camera in her room would be a massive violation of privacy, but elsewhere in the house, no - it's her workplace, you are her employer, and you have a right to "supervise" IMHO.

It's different but I'm a dog walker. I would very happily be spied upon as I worked - I generally conduct myself as though that's happening anyway but perhaps I'm weird. I'd love it if my clients could see the extra mile I go to make sure there dog has a lovely walk. It pisses me off that there are other dog walkers who think stopping on a bench at the top of the park and smoking fags before returning the dog is adequate. I guess you could apply the same logic to nannies.

Where I worked - anything I did during work hours could be (and understand randomly was) monitored. It included all emails sent from work account, anything accessed through work PC (including eg private emails - though in the end they just blocked yahoo/Facebook etc). Mobiles were frowned on since they weren't monitored, and opened you up to accusations on insider trading. CCTV throughout.

There's a legal issue wrt to giving her warning - but overall - she's at work in another persons home. Being monitored is part of it.

It must just be me that it doesn't sit right with, then.
I've been thinking about it more, and i think it's a trust issue too. I don't keep secrets from my boss, even about my personal life. If they ask, I tell. I'm just that kind of person. But they are keeping a secret from me essentially, by putting up cameras without me knowing.
If they were doing this, I'd probably wonder what else they were doing. Telling their friends what I have told them in confidence? That sort of thing.
If I know they are putting up cameras, fine. It's nice for them to see what we do in the day. It's just the secrecy of doing it without the nanny knowing.

Despite your concerns about your child, the nanny is still a human being! This means it is massively immoral to set up secret cameras to spy on her at work. It's not about having nothing to fear if she is doing her job properly - would you not feel violated if you were to find out that you had been filmed WITHOUT YOUR KNOWLEDGE at work? If you have concerns, please just talk to her about them.

A lot of really thoughtful responses, thank you.

She is not live in.

I don't think she mistreats my DS as such, generally I'm happy with our arrangement, her references were good (this is only her 2nd job) and I do trust her. There does not seem to be much bond between them from my son's side at least - which after 3 months 3.5 days a week I would have (perhaps naively) expected.

My main concern is with a conflict between what she reports to me and what I know about my son's usual behaviour. I think we have differing parenting styles eg whereas I am against leaving a child to cry to sleep I think she is not and I am concerned she is not following my wishes as a result, purely because of a difference in opinion. I know from (other) experience one person's version of what sounds like a baby in distress can be very, very different to another.

I just want reassurance that we're on the same page. I've tried talking to her about it and still feel a need for reassurance.

I also saw the nanny out one day when she didn't know I could see her, and it didn't appear that she was particularly attentive. But I only saw her for a minute and of course it's unrealistic to expect a nanny to spend every second lavishing attention and it was potentially out of context.

I think I will try talking to her again before going all Spooks!

All i know is i saw a nanny at the park who had 3 young kids she was sat on bench on phone. The kids wanted to go on swings she said you can only go on what you can get on yourself (now a parent could do this but i wondered if the employer would have been happy to see?)
They were also injuring themselves too.

I would go into my DDs nursery and find her walking around crying with noone paying attention. Well if they noticed i was there they would have behaved differently.

OTOH OH comes in sometimes and finds DD has a poop that i havent smelt/checked for and i feel judged whilst also knowing you cant be on top of everything. Willfully not doing something (or not) is different to not being able to do evertything at once. So yes your DC may be crying more than you would like but why and would they behave differently if you were there (the nanny)

I don't think that the crying thing is down to different parenting styles - you're the parent and so she should do things your way.

How would you feel if when your parents or your DH (assuming you have one) left DS to cry when you're out for an evening or if you went to the shops and came back to find that they were ignoring him - you would challenge them, wouldn't you? I know that I would!

Slightly different story but a friend of mine has just sent their child (1 year old) to a nursery with a webcam. I thought about it (for two seconds) and decided I wouldn't want my child there. I have to trust the nursery where my child goes. if I didn't then he wouldn't go.

They do things differently to me but as they arne't a deal breaker I just suck it up.

k

The use of recording mechanisms to obtain data without an employees knowledge is unlawful. Thus the taping of meetings without an individuals knowledge and agreement would be unlawful. The recent case involving the use of a private investigator by a school Principal to carry out surveillance work and follow the plaintiff teacher in a car to ascertain what she was doing during her working day, albeit that it was without the consent or knowledge of the employer Board of Management, was criticised by the High Court as inappropriate and constituting serious harassment. The employer in that case was ordered to pay 75,000 in damages to the employee for breach of its duty of care as a prudent employer, of which 5,000 represented aggravated damages.

The specific purpose for which any surveillance is being used must be clearly stated. If employees are told cameras are being installed for the purpose of preventing theft in the workplace, the employer cannot subsequently use footage from such surveillance as evidence in an unrelated disciplinary matter. If surveillance material is to be used to identify disciplinary issues relating to employees, the employees must be informed of this before the cameras are used for these purposes. Employers/ Data Controllers cannot use personal information captured on CCTV systems for just any purpose or a broad range of purposes.

In short, from what I have read, you can install a camera at home against risk of burglary or serious crime.... but if you film your nanny abusing your child, you can't use the footage as evidence for prosecution. If you have serious concerns, I would come home unannounced "ill", or install the camera anyway but you could be liable for some serious fines. Speak to a solicitor

I agree with Ploppy16. The sensible way to go.

I thought so TreadSoftley, if I was a nanny I would certainly resign after secret cameras and then take it further to find out my rights.