To think that my boss is being unreasonable?

[DancerChick]

Background- Been at the job for 5 months and have very strange boss.

Right, so there is a very senior person in the office that I get along with very well and he always seeks me out in case of an issue. I've had great feedback from this person and I really respect him.

There was an issue today which I brought to his attention and we worked together to resolve it. A video conference meeting has now been arranged with the relevant teams to try and work out how to avoid similar problems in the future. I was invited to it because I have been involved in resolving these issues, however, my boss wasn't sent an invite.

My boss is big on everything being brought to her notice at the end of the day and so I let her know about the issue and mentioned in passing that we had a video conference coming up to discuss it further and I would keep her posted with whatever was discussed.

She then basically invited herself to the conference.

She said that she "really should be in that conference" and that I need to "include her in these things".

Now I didn't set this conference up and it was not up to me to compel this senior person to invite anybody.

On her insistence I have now sent her an invite for the conference and she will not be a part of this meeting.

I don't think this was appropriate. I don't think she should have invited herself, I think she should have reached out to senior management and set up an invite after giving them her reasons for wanting to be a part of this.
I was also not comfortable forwarding an invite to her when I was not the host, but I had very little choice in the matter.

I am now in two minds about whether I should send this senior person a heads up about my manager being in the meeting or not. Even if I did send a heads up, what would I say? So sorry she invited herself, deal with it?!

To make matters worse she doesn't have the best communication skills or the highest level of business expertise. She often is repetitive and rude in meetings and asks very obvious questions. I am worried this will make it hard for the rest of us to come to a final solution and I am also concerned she may try to take credit for my work.

Any thoughts?

Anyone who tells me at work that I should reach out to a colleague rather than speak to them is liable to get laughed out of the office.

DancerChick, ignore the sniping about reaching out. You've already explained you're trilingual and English isn't your first language - that phrase is more acceptable in American English than British English - whatever.

Getting on to the substantive point, I suspect cultural differences may be at the bottom of this. English people (including me) grow up in a culture of hierarchy in the workplace which is hard for colleagues to understand (in my workplace, particularly difficult for mainland European colleagues) as the way they have been encultured at work is very different.

You have however had some good advice on how not to piss off your English boss by transgressing these cultural norms. I would follow it. As SirChenJin says, if you were on my team, I would indeed be having a word with you about your attitude, regardless of your technical skills, because I'd be concerned that if you treated me that rudely, you may also piss off other colleagues and put yourself in a situation where I'd have to let you go as people couldn't work with you.

You do come across as a little superior and I don't think this attitude will necessarily help you progress.

I just wanted to say that in the UK at least you will have some employment rights and cannot be "fired on the spot" in the way that you fear.

Seriously Dancer it does appear that you are trying to exclude your boss. You may be getting validation from the senior manager but do be careful.

If your boss wants to be in a meeting that involves people she manages, that is her call and the senior person will understand. Do not overthink it or your role.

You have only been there 5 months, too early to be making the call abot the worth of your manager to the senior person.

Youarecompletelyright: you are completely right!!

It's usually normal to add extras who need to be there - if you are required to do extra work for another area it can impact workloads in your own department - so she should be involved to at least know what requirements are of your time and how that lies with other priorities she has for her staff.

OP, you may not realise it but you come across as quite sexist in your OP. There's the "really senior" "gentleman" who you "really respect" and who always "seeks you out"; then there is your female boss, who is "very strange", "rude" and "repetitive", "without business skills" who "will try to take credit for your work". Hmm- what a load of clichés and stereotypes. I wouldn't like you have you as my employee.

How have I excluded her?!

I didn't set up the meeting or the list of invitees. I have kept her totally up to date about the problem and when she requested I gave the details of the meeting so that she could attend.

I understand that it is her call to attend and I have in no way tried to stop her. I personally was surprised by the way she went about inviting herself without informing the organiser.

I just wanted to say that in the UK at least you will have some employment rights and cannot be "fired on the spot" in the way that you fear.

I am aware of this. I said what I did to make a point. Sort of like when I say I did a million things today, I didn't actually do a million things.

You like this "very senior person" liking you a bit too much. your boss is quite right to be assertive about needing to attend certain things about procedure. Lending a hand with fire-fighting - fine for you to do on your own. discussing procedure at a level that misses a level out - not fine.

When your boss said "get me into that meeting" she may have meant "call the host of the meeting and ask them to invite me". That is, imo, what you should have done, anyway.

Now that you have gone ahead and invited her yourself, you need to let the host know as a courtesy (whether or not he will find out anyway) and you can do this very simply and blandly without feeling some insane need to slag your boss off, or making out she is poking her nose in, which it feels like you are dying to do. just drop a line to the very senior person, cc his PA if he has one, and your boss, and say "Name, thank you again for inviting me to the meeting to discuss procedure with respect to x. This is something that Bossname should also be a part of, and I have extended the invitation to her too." If Very Senior Person doesn't like this, he can take it up with her, but if he does he is blatantly managing her out and he had better have a case for it.

Your boss may be odd, the very senior person may think the sun shines out of your arse, who knows. but watch yourself. Do things right no matter what because your boss is still your boss, and if something happens to her you are more, not less, likely to benefit from this if you have always treated her with courtesy.

What a typical and fucking annoying AIBU.

OP comes on, says AIBU, is given some quite measured responses, says no - IABR!!!!! - and starts with italics.

Oh sod off. Why bother asking if you have no intention of listening to anything anyone says to you? Don't come here for affirmation.

Good luck with your future employment with this organisation.

I am now in two minds about whether I should send this senior person a heads up about my manager being in the meeting or not. Even if I did send a heads up, what would I say? So sorry she invited herself, deal with it?!

This^ is how you were planning to exclude her - by going to senior guy rolling your eyes at your boss. Don't try to deny it now - you said as much in your OP.

OP, you may not realise it but you come across as quite sexist in your OP. There's the "really senior" "gentleman" who you "really respect" and who always "seeks you out"; then there is your female boss, who is "very strange", "rude" and "repetitive", "without business skills" who "will try to take credit for your work". Hmm- what a load of clichés and stereotypes. I wouldn't like you have you as my employee.

I respect people based on capabilities, not gender. IMO you are being sexist by judging this purely based on gender without even knowing either of the two people involved. Please don't turn this into something it isn't.

if anything, my boss is probably sexist because she is openly partial to the men in our team.

Maybe you should have reached out to her yourself and given her a heads up to ensure she was in the loop. shoots self

Sorry, but I agree that anyone who seriously says 'reached out' like this is a pretentious twat. YABU.

"or do I have the authority to compel anyone to edit the list." - this sentence shows why you need to learn some office social skills. It isn't about having authority to make people do things. When you are junior you don't swan about not taking responsibility for anything because only other people have the POWER to make people do things. when you are more senior, you do not get to issue orders and the things that you have demanded with automatically happen without hitch or complaint.

To put it baldly, to cover your arse, you now need your boss in this meeting. You should have seen that in the first place, instead of getting hung up on this chap being so very ultra senior, and being so flattered that you were asked and she was not. At that moment you should have protected your relationship with your boss, and therefore your future, by saying "Great! Presumably you are inviting Bossname to this too?" and he would have said "Of course" (while you both know he blatantly forgot, while he finds you so keen and cute. and maybe malleable and agreeable). You need to get her in the meeting, and you need to do it in a way where you don't offend anyone else either. not hard to do, but you won't have time to think about it if you aren't thinking in those terms. You need to make things happen, not just let things happen to you, because the things that are happening right now aren't making you look good.

Have you been working long?

And anyone who uses the trilingual thing to excuse it is obviously deliberately ignoring the otherwise pretty perfect English. That's called having your cake and eating it, if claiming that as a defence.

Well I'm afraid to say that after just five months in the job you can be fired on the spot in the UK and you could be fired on the spot with much longer service for gross misconduct, for example if it's in your ts and cs/staff handbook.

There isn't enough information on what makes your boss odd OP. If someone on her team is involved in a meeting then it's her business to be there because your duties in dealing with these matters come within her remit as your boss, whether she deals with the nitty gritty of whatever it is or not.

The nub of this is that you like being singled out by this very senior person and would rather work for him than your boss who you either don't get on with or don't feel comfortable with. If this man knows what has been going on today, then I don't honestly see how your boss could take the credit.

OP, you may be right but you have created a narrative for your little story which does look incredibly sexist - on the one hand, the competent, senior, gentlemanly boss who works well with subordinates; on the other hand, the rude, slightly hysterical junior female boss who is jealous of her subordinates (but only the female ones) and will seek to undermine them.

Perhaps you should reflect on whether you have integrated some sexist prejudices that now affect your judgement, and whether this is how you want to project yourself in the workplace. I certainly wouldn't be happy with it.

You are in the wrong on this one, my boss/manager for one part of my work asks herself along to my meetings, or we chat about whether she needs to be present. Jumping over her head, even if this senior person was happy to do so, is very unwise. She will be signing off your promotion forms or even making you permanent, not him.

She can't take credit for your work if you are at the meeting. Even if she implies that stuff was her idea that was yours, it will be clear from the way it is being spoken about where the credit lies. You can always tell.

However - a tip. if you think this is happening or is going to happen, pull out something specific and say "Fortunately I was able to do a, which at least prevented b and the risk of c. I would like to thank Bossname for her supporting me in taking quick action on things like that, and her understanding of the need to act quickly" - you always look good when you dish out credit elsewhere even as you make sure people know what you did.

OP's English is typical of the stylized language that seems to be taught within a business language setting, it's not rude/pretentious/sexist (or at least not deliberately so) it's just not the language a native speaker would use.

OP; if anyone questions why you have added your boss to the invite list, tell them calmly that she asked you to forward to invite - that's it. You take your lead from your manager and it's up to her to guide you as to how that company works and what is appropriate.

I would not be happy about someone adding themselves to a meeting I had arranged, but I would take it up with that person not their subordinate. You have only done as you've been told and if the more senior person specifically wanted a different outcome he ought to have been explicit.

As for taking credit for your work...I suspect the senior person knows who's done what!

Oh, and I wouldn't bat an eyelid at 'reaching out'! :) can't see what the big deal is.

weird AIBU.

I would forward the meeting request to your boss and then if you're so worried about it email senior boss saying "Hi X, just to keep you in the loop, Y has asked to be added to this meeting so I've forwarded her the meeting invitation." Non issue.

"Reaching out" is dire though I appreciate if English is your second language you may not be as irritated by it as some of us are! I worked at a global copany once which was rife with it:

"I don't have the broadband for that" I don't have time for that
"Can you take that off line" Stop talking about that here
"We're on a burning platform" We're running out of time
"We need to drill down and get some granularity on this" we need to figure this out in detail
"Blue sky thinking" general wankathon

and my most hated "what are our learnings from this?" LEARNINGS ISN'T A FUCKING WORD

Gennez they are painful!

OP, you seem to be (deliberately or otherwise) missing the point that people are making here. You are hung up on the fact that your boss has compelled you to invite her to this video conference and you feel it is not your place to do so. I think you are making too much of that, whoever arranged the original conference will have received a notification that you have now invited her anyway and if you really want to clarify, just send him a quick email saying that your boss requested to be included. She is your boss and it's not up to you to decide or not the appropriateness of her being present. It is also not your issue or any reflection on you if she is repetitive and rude. If this is obvious to you, then it will be equally obvious to everyone else. They probably know it already. Do bear in mind however that she has been there for longer than you and probably has more influence than you do so it would be wise to keep your thoughts about her manner and lack of expertise to yourself.