Which of the is being unreasonable? (trigger warning – termination so please don’t read if this subject upsets you)

[Bluetonic123]

I don’t normally post on here (although I lurk because I am in a relationship with a guy with children and I am getting to know them and am doing my best to do it properly and avoid stepping on their mother’s toes) but I have a situation with some friends and was wondering what you thought this situation.

I have one friend who has been trying to have a baby for over two years. It’s not happening for her and her fiancé and for some reason, they are very adverse to speaking to a medical professional about it so they don’t know what the issue is or even if it’s just bad luck.

I have another friend who is pregnant and does not want to be and has decided to have a termination.

I am as supportive as I can be to both.

The 2nd friend did not want to tell the 1st friend about the pregnancy as she thought it would be too painful but she guessed as my mate was vomiting a lot and asked directly. The 2nd friend was honest about not wanting to keep the baby and the 1st friend just started shouting at her about how she was ungrateful and saying some awful things about how she should keep the baby. It was really horrible and they were both crying. The girl who is having the termination does not want to see or speak to the other girl again. The girl who is trying for a baby maintains that she was just saying what she thought and thinks that it was insensitive of the girl to tell her, even though she asked directly.

To put this into context – the mate who is trying has very well-off parents, a well-paid job and a fiancé with the same. Because of this they are fortunate enough to own a family home outright in a desirable area of London at the age of 30. In contrast my other friend earns very little and rents a room in a house with four other people. She has no savings and her parents are not in a position to give any money at all. She is also single, and the father put the phone down on her when she told him she was pregnant and she has no other way of getting in touch with him. Their situations couldn’t be any more different.

I can understand that it must be painful for my friend who is trying to conceive but I think that her reaction was totally unreasonable and that she owes my other friend an apology. But I have never wanted my own children (never say never though) so worry I am perhaps being insensitive to her feelings.

Which of them (if any) are being unreasonable?

friend earns very little and rents a room in a house with four other people. She has no savings and her parents are not in a position to give any money at all. She is also single, and the father put the phone down on her when she told him she was pregnant and she has no other way of getting in touch with him.

It's hardly like she is just choosing to have a termination for no good reason, if she was in a secure relationship, had a home, support and was financially well off, I doubt she would make the same choice,

So for someone to attack her orally , at such a hideously difficult time, is really not reasonable, she is very sensible to have nothing to do with that person again, as they will cause real damage.

Your friend who cannot conceive has not right to lash out at anyone, if she cannot be bothered to be brave enough to investigate what the issues (some easily fixed) are with herself or partner, she should not expect sympathy, not everything is easy in life, she is just spoilt and use to getting her own way, having tantrums daily gets you anything worth having.

She does need to unreservedly apology, but not until she understands what she has done, or it will be adding insult to injury.

I hope they both find happiness, life is not easy.

Be honest with your friend, because if she carries on behaving the way she is, she will undoubtedly do damage to all of her relationships, so you be brave, tell her you are concerned and be firm that she must address both issues and get herself into a better frame of mind.

Your friend who is facing a termination will need a lot of love and support.

of course ttc one is the one being unreasonable (really, neither of them? Are you people on glue?)

Both are painful positions to be in but my god your poor pregnant friend. The last thing a woman who is about to go through the unpleasant and heartbreaking experience of having an abortion is a friend judging and shouting at her. Your non-pregnant friend is understandably upset but other people being pregnant is not always a good thing and SIBU by refusing to apologise.

If your non-pregnant friend deserves sympathy and support about her situation so does your pregnant friend. She is a not a better person than her simply because she wouldn't have an abortion. Abortions are such a sensitive and political issue but unless you're the woman considering actually having one you have no right to an opinion on that individual's circumstances.

she is just spoilt and use to getting her own way, having tantrums daily gets you anything worth having.

I feel I should stick up for here. This isn't typical behaviour from her.

Neither. I would find the termination very distressing if I had been trying to get pregnant for 2 years. I'm pro choice, btw.

Although I have every sympathy with friend 1 and her situation, I think that she is being incredibly unreasonable. She had no right to shout at friend 2.
Friend 2's decision to have an termination is frankly, none of friend 1's business.

I am amazed at people saying ttc friend is not unreasonable for being verbally abusive and nasty to another friend who has found herself in a very upsetting and vulnerable position.

One persons fertility choices have no bearing whatsoever on another persons. Having an abortion or not is in no way affecting another persons chance of conceiving or not. And just because a person desperately desires a baby it does not mean that another person should, and it doesn't mean they are selfish for not desiring one.

you can find it as distressing as you want, but on what fucking planet is screaming at and berating a woman who is going to have a termination in any way not unacceptable?
I am seriously wondering what the fuck is wrong with many people on mn today. It's like its a wankers out of the woodwork festival or something.

The ttc friend is being unreasonable. Shouting at your other friend is not going to change her situation. And if she won't even go to the GP about it she's not helping herself either.

I don't get it either. Fertility problems are not a free pass to be abusive.

It sucks for the TTCing friend that nothing is happening yet, but it's no excuse to behave like a total arsehole to another friend in desperate circumstances.
She should apologise.

They both want the same thing: control over their own fertility, their bodies and the choices they make.

This isn't typical behaviour from her.

Are you sure?

Does she have much experience of not getting what she wants,

Because lashing out at someone who is in immense pain (it is an extreme thing to go through having to choose to end a pregnant for what ever reason) is pretty extreme behaviour, and she seems to feel justified doing it, and not horrified at herself, which means she is use to it.

I am amazed at people saying ttc friend is not unreasonable for being verbally abusive and nasty to another friend who has found herself in a very upsetting and vulnerable position.

No one is saying she was acting reasonable. I think they're saying how she acted was understandable. It's understandable that when emotions are high about something you're sensitive about to have a knee jerk reaction like that. That doesn't excuse it though. Should she apologize? Yes, but it needs to be on her terms, not because the OP is putting pressure on her.

I'm just saying that while it's not excusable that the friend should understand that putting emotions aside to be supportive of her is going to be something she struggles with and not expect her to give more than she is able to, and to be sensitive to that.

they arent saying that though. Multiple people said that neither of them was unreasonable, and that is just wrong.
And its not really understandable, to have such a reaction. Get upset and run off crying: understandable. Rant and rave to someone else how unfair it is: understandable.
To press someone, who was trying to not hurt your feelings, to tell you they are pregnant but terminating, and screaming at them that she should keep it etc etc: not understandable, not ok, and certainly not unreasonable.
And she isn't backing down at all once the heat of the moment has passed, insisting she was in the right. Sensitive to her...she hasn't shown any for anyone else.

certainly not reasonable ffs.

Vile shouty friend!
Your poor other friend.
I know which one I'd have a few choice words for.

Your friend trying to get p/g is a selfish, cruel bully, I'm afraid. She'd rather attack someone who is desperately vulnerable than make the effort to find out why she can't conceive.

The first friend is unreasonable for shouting and saying such things to the second, now she has to live with her friend not wanting anything to do with her. Sad, especially as the first friend is in a bad place and it must be very hard for her but very understandable from the second friend's POV to want nothing to do with her anymore.

The first friend needs to take some time, see a counsellor and also seea GP for advice. The second friend needs to avoid the first and do what she needs to.

You need to support them both without taking sides and either ignore their fight i.e it's between them or make it clear who you think was being unreasonable. If you think friend A, then you need to explain to her that friend B is well within her rights not to want anything to do with her and while you love friend A and you understand how hard it must be, she really hurt friend B. You can support friend A by suggesting she sees her GP and takes a step back from friend B. You need to support friend B by not pushing her to reconcile with friend A, if she chaoses to get there then it's her choice and supporting her through the termination. If you think friend B is all those things friend A said then you need to step away from her so she can get support from true friends.

Glad to see on your update you thought friend A was out of order, I did suspect as much.

I dont think either is unreasonable.
If one is angry at other for having abortion she should be able to say it. Other friend may not want to be friends still but if thats what she thinks.
Should she have lied and said - youre making the right choice?
Infertility is very upsetting it can make you so angry why other people not you.
Possibly the couple have found out what is wrong but agreed too embarrassing to tell people or they are currently ivfing some people dont want to talk about it.
Also anyone can terminate(physically) but not everyone will get pregnant a lot of people fail at ivf and then where are they left. So whilst 1 can resolve the issue and get on with it and try to forget the other may go through years of treatment only to fail.
I feel for the infertile one she is not in control of her fertility.
Even if ivf works - 1/5 or so are twins which they try to worry you about and if you want a sibling...
I dont think it is spoilt you try having no control of something so fundamental.
But if she hasnt she should see gp as it takes years to sort stuff, waiting lists, tests,donors. And success rates go down after 35.
But i also think it highlights that maybe the abortion friend could be making the wrong choice... There is no guarantee in life that she would get pregnant again if /when she wants as the other friend is proof of is it 1/7 couples are infertile. Aomething to consider.

No she shouldnt be able to say it. Only a totally insensitive twat would actually say it, rather than think it.

When we were trying to get pregnant with ds2 my sil accidentally fell pregnant she had just come out of a longterm relationship with somebody she had a home and two children with had been having an affair and got pregnant. I was really angry with her at the time as I was struggling to conceive and she to my mind got pregnant really easily and had a termination the difference is I didn't tell her this I just raged at dh her brother of course I was unreasonable its difficult to think reasonably when you desperately want a child but its not friend 2 fault friend 1 can't conceive and if she feels she can't continue with the pregnancy than she needs as much support as possible.

My initial thought was that the TTC friend was OTT in her reaction if she wasn't seeking medical help, but then I wondered if it's a case of transferred anger. Maybe it's her partner who's refusing medical intervention for some reason, and her frustration about that just boiled over.

That might be an explanation for her behaviour, but it's no excuse.

The friend seeking a termination obviously needs support. Until the TTC friend's outburst, she was "only" dealing with the distress of organising a termination; but now she's also had to deal with the emotional abuse from the other person. I just hope that when she goes for her termination, she doesn't have to deal with any pickets outside the clinic.