Dog ban outside school

[stivesholiday]

Recently our primary school has closed its gates to cars as our new head teacher wants to encourage as many of us to walk to school as possible.

Additionally, the new head teacher has changed the drop off and pick up rules, so that parents don't need to wait in the playground, they can do a quick wave goodbye and kiss in the morning. At the end of the day, as long as the teacher sees the parent waiting, the child can walk out of school.

Concurrently, there are a lot of people since the New Year that have gotten dogs. These factors combined mean that many more dogs are being walked to school as dog owning parents realise that if they walk the 20 mins to school and back twice a day, that it a fair chunk of their dog walking done; quite handy.

There are now around 15 dogs that are in the school area before and after school. They are not allowed in the playground, but the parents don't need to go in there anyway. So there are lots of dog owning parents waiting on the footpath behind the metal fence outside of school.

Some parents have complained that there are too many dogs at the school gate area and it is frightening for their children who are scared of dogs. These are not aggressive dogs, but many are puppies so are bouncy and they all want to play with each other.

I can see the perspective of the parents with small children that feel scared. They have put a petition together to ask the head to ban dogs from outside the school.

Am I being unreasonable to think that as long as the dogs are not in the school grounds, are not acting aggressively, are on a lead/under control, there is nothing that these parents can do, no matter what the petition?

I put my hands up to owning an 8 month old puppy. One mother asked me via Facebook to not walk my dog to and from school and I said no because I'm doing nothing wrong. I likened it to not wanting a strangers car parked outside your house but you can do nothing about it if they have paid their road tax.

I quite like dogs.

But wouldn't welcome having to pass a small pack on a narrow pavement, with several small children on a daily basis.

I think this kind of 'dog gathering' is quite anti social.

But clearly the school can't police the pavement outside school so I don't know what the answer is really.

I used to walk my dog on the school run (when my DC were young enough to need escorting), walk to school then a proper walk on the way home, you'd maybe meet one or two others doing the same thing...you avoid the gates, cross the road if you spot a child obviously upset by the thought of a dog, move off the pavement if someone needs past - it's not an issue.

15 bouncy puppies (so not fully under control or they couldn't be bouncy) in a very confined space is not the same at all.

Ok it's not the OP's fault there are that many dogs in such a small space, but I wouldn't be adding mine to that, I mean can't you stand somewhere else with a bit more room and watch your DC walk down that path? Or leave them where the cars are dropping children off?

If it's causing a huge problem then maybe the Teachers could let the dog owning children out first, then then ones who don't mind, then the ones who are wary of dogs last. By then hopefully the dogs would have gone. I can't imagine that would be too difficult to organise once you know who's who.

Read first and last page - but ideally the school would have a dog congregating entrance and a non-dog entrance so people can take their pick. Or a dog congregating spot that can be avoided.

I walk my dog in a park through which a girl who is clearly terrified of dogs walks to school. If I see her I call my dog to me and make sure there is distance between him and her, but I'm not going to change my walking time. I don't think the mum helps particularly as she lost the plot when a tiny puppy calmly stood near her dd on the path. I've had a dog terrified child who used to do all the wrong things (scream, wave his arms around, run) so I know it's not always easy but now he loves dogs. It makes life much easier if you can help a dog scared child learn to tolerate them rather than expect all the dogs in the world to keep out of their way (ds2 was so bad around dogs, friends with dogs stopped inviting him to play - so it was definitely in his interests to get over his fear).

The head teacher can't ban dogs from the pavement. All she can do is ask politely for the dog owners to be considerate of the children and not bring their dogs on the school run.

I'm sure you'll still get some selfish dicks though who think "fuck everyone else" and put their convenience over being considerate for others.

In ds3's school dogs are only allowed at the gate and there's sometimes a bit of a gathering of dogs there in the corner, but it's a wide space so not really a problem. They're not near children who don't like them.

In ds1's first school people used to tie the dogs to the narrow gate and surroundings and then go into a problem. I thought that was potentially more problematic as the dogs were often pretty much touching you as you left - can see that would scary for some children.

Space sounds the issue for me. Rather than petitions seeking to ban dogs they should be looking at ways to separate dogs from the mass of kids on their way in or out of the school.

The OP posted this earlier.

Walked to school again today, dropped off my child, carried on walking up the footpath. My dog was walking beside me sensibly, close to my ankle, doing nothing but walking. One of 'the complainers' made a great fuss of walking her children as close to the school hedge as possible away from my dog whilst tutting at me. I was not doing anything wrong. We were 50 yards from the school. Why am I wrong to be walking a calm docile dog?

Yes, large amount of dogs waiting outside school in the afternoon is a problem, but in the situation described above, is every member of the general public really expected to never walk their well behaved dog on a lead on a public footpath within 50 yards of a school between 8:30-9am or 3-3:30pm? Or is it only parents at school who should change their dog walking routines?

It doesnt actually matter what anyone thinks about the dogs outside, the school can not legally control what anyone does on a public pavement.

All it can do is send out a letter making a request of parents about dogs.

Persoanlly given some of the over zealousness about packed lunch policing, I am glad schools can not legally control what happens on public pavements.

I must live on another planet to other posters. The only problems I have with DC and my dogs on the occasional school run I do are those whose parents allow them to bound over and "pet" my dogs without asking me if they are trained/friendly. They are waggy little borders who would do almost anything for a tummy rub but my DS has always been told he must ask permission before approaching a strange dog.

Way I read it was op and her doggy pals are trying to force a change in the rules by congregating together right by the gate with a mixture of dogs and excitable puppies.

I asked op about this earlier but she didn't reply. Last post sounded like dog wasn't even on a lead

Poor head teacher. Must be really rubbish to have a sizeable number of parents trying to undermine your authority in this way.

I'd love to say hello to 15 dogs every morning.

It's horrible to have a phobia but I don't think you can expect the world to change to accommodate you. It sounds like the parents who are anti dogs are making the situation much worse for their own children by over reacting to dogs all of which I assume are family pets and therefore very safe with children.

but that's the thing. It's not one child. There have been a ton of complaints.

I would suggest the dog-phobic-children be recognised as having a particular special requirement for which a reasonable adjustment could be made. Eg allowed into school 10 minutes early and be allowed to leave 10 minutes early/late. This is allowed for my friend's DC who struggles to cope with the hubbub of arrival and departure and needs a calmer environment.

Why should people be expected to change their schedule so some group of dog owners can take their dogs to school?

Oh, and I am sure the teaching and admin staff at the school would love to wade through this mess. They don't have anything better to do, do they?

How about just leaving the dog at home? It's not like people taking are taking a child to a dog park and complaining about it. It's a school! The children are supposed to be there. The dogs don't need to be there.

I don't understand what all this legal talk is about. You can do a lot of legal things that are inconsiderate and unnecessary.

I don't think there is an issue with taking the dogs to school, the issue is tying them up on the narrow bit of path and not controlling the bounciness. (school have not through the logistics of getting a couple of hundred kids to parents and where that many parents are going to stand at least on a playground the parents can spread out)

We have a similar set up at school, though only with one or two sensible dogs. the footpath is very narrow if there is anyone/anydog standing by the railings. it makes it difficult to get through with a double buggy/a child/a toddler. I need to keep ds away from the dogs as he is scared of them if they are closer than a foot, and he is unpredictable and stressed out going to and from school and could well lash out at a dog if it did something unexpected. I shudder to think of what damage might be done to dog or human if a buggy wheel/scooter/bike ran over a dogs tail. oh and there is a whole load of daft parents who let their child stroke any dog and get in their faces.

I'm not afraid of dogs my children are not afraid of dogs

The situation the OP describes I would find really irritating, not a few dogs tied up but 15 or so with their owners

And in the same way some people don't keep an eye on their children some people won't be completely on the ball with the dogs either

(And I say this as someone who walked her dad's dog to the shop (near the school) on a very short lead and nearly had her arm ripped off by a dog who found a five year old so much more appealing . Frightened the life out of the child!)

in answer would I complain and do anything I could yes I would. I want my Ds to go into school happily.

I don't think a scared child should have to walk through a gauntlet of fear to go to school.

I am afraid the 15 dog owners are only thinking of themselves not the scared children

Because, sovery, if you have a dog it is part of the family. Therefore if you do a school run, it is part of it.

I'm only page five. I don't really know where I stand on this, I have splinters from the fence i'm sat on..

I have a big big dog, I take him on the school run twice a week. I stand on the opposite side of the road to the gate, off the pavement in a driveway entrance. A few others with dogs stand by us. I do that because he towers over most kids and frightens them. Outside the gate are usually ten or so dogs, all barking, jumping, 'playing'. The problem is that the ones you notice by the gate are untrained and uncontrolled. Would I like to see them somehow held accountable? Yes. No solution I can think of that doesn't affect responsible owners.

But surely it's understandable that some of the people / schoolkids / toddlers / buggies etc are scared / nerovous / petrified to have to go down an enclosed 4 foot wide path with 15 dogs (including "bouncy" ones)?

Even the most avid dog lover surely can surely see that is a really confined space to be in with an awful lot of dogs, no way you can get out of their reach or they of yours in that kind of situation. You can't get away or go around, or anything, and everyone has to do that to simply get into school.

4 feet wide is really really small. I feel quite shocked that so many people on this thread can't see a problem with that scenario at all.

It would be terrifying for a toddler / reception / small child, anyone can see that, surely?

I think that sounds fine, though, Tooold - any considerate dog owner would do likewise.

It's the ones crowding round the gates with 'bouncy' ie: untrained dogs that strike me as selfish & irresponsible - no consideration for other people's children or for their own dogs.

Bowlers what a complete pile of horse crap. It is in no way necessary to take the dog, whether or not you consider it 'part of the family'.

Actually I don't know why I asked that question, some people can see why it would be unsettling, others not.

As an adult I wouldn't want to have to navigate such a small space with such a lot of dogs all able to reach me, especially "bouncy" ones.

For a child with even a minor concern about dogs, having to do that twice a day every day would be psychologically wrecking.

Thanks unclet, but don't agree with you,.

So please explain why the dog 'needs' to go.