Dog ban outside school

[stivesholiday]

Recently our primary school has closed its gates to cars as our new head teacher wants to encourage as many of us to walk to school as possible.

Additionally, the new head teacher has changed the drop off and pick up rules, so that parents don't need to wait in the playground, they can do a quick wave goodbye and kiss in the morning. At the end of the day, as long as the teacher sees the parent waiting, the child can walk out of school.

Concurrently, there are a lot of people since the New Year that have gotten dogs. These factors combined mean that many more dogs are being walked to school as dog owning parents realise that if they walk the 20 mins to school and back twice a day, that it a fair chunk of their dog walking done; quite handy.

There are now around 15 dogs that are in the school area before and after school. They are not allowed in the playground, but the parents don't need to go in there anyway. So there are lots of dog owning parents waiting on the footpath behind the metal fence outside of school.

Some parents have complained that there are too many dogs at the school gate area and it is frightening for their children who are scared of dogs. These are not aggressive dogs, but many are puppies so are bouncy and they all want to play with each other.

I can see the perspective of the parents with small children that feel scared. They have put a petition together to ask the head to ban dogs from outside the school.

Am I being unreasonable to think that as long as the dogs are not in the school grounds, are not acting aggressively, are on a lead/under control, there is nothing that these parents can do, no matter what the petition?

I put my hands up to owning an 8 month old puppy. One mother asked me via Facebook to not walk my dog to and from school and I said no because I'm doing nothing wrong. I likened it to not wanting a strangers car parked outside your house but you can do nothing about it if they have paid their road tax.

who said all dogs are evil?

Lots of posters - many of them dog-lovers - have said that the situation the OP describes is not ideal.

I don't think a single post has suggested that there's anything wrong with dogs per se.

I've repeatedly said that most are fine, but that a minority represent a serious problem.

raven, ok, I may have paraphrased from the "I hate dogs"posts but I think that was the general tone. What I was trying to say is that many threads on MN about dogs quickly descend into an opportunity for those who dislike dogs to give dog owners a kicking. They may wish that dogs don't exist but that's not reality and, if a dog is well behaved, they have to learn to live with it.

PS IF a dog is NOT well behaved then please feel free to get stuck in. But you can't simply eradicate well behaved dogs from your environment just because you, or your kids, don't like them.

I'd completely agree that it's reasonable for those of us who don't really see the point of dogs to tolerate well behaved dogs! I do. I even quite like some of them.

I'm fighting a rearguard action against dh & the dc getting a dog, & my biggest argument against is that none of us have time to train it, walk it, or well, love it & socialise it.

I don't like the thought of being the tiresome character at the school gates with some mad furry thing climbing its lead & bouncing at other people, bleating 'oh she's just being friendly! Tell her to get down!' as it shreds their tights or makes their toddler cry.

It's not fair on the dog or on more responsible owners, for a start.

I completely understand people who don't want to run the gauntlet of badly behaved dogs. But I do have issues with people who feel they shouldn't be have to be exposed to any dogs at all, regardless of the dogs' behaviour, simply because they, or their kids, don't like dogs. The reality of the situation in this country is that many people own dogs. It's entirely unrealistic to expect to be able to avoid them in daily life.

I'm a middle-aged woman who has had dogs my whole life, and the only time I've encountered 15 dogs together is when I have chosen to put myself into an environment where that is to be expected - dog training classes, rescue kennels, breed club get-togethers, charity dogwalks, some outdoor activities where most people take dogs (although even then, while the total number of dogs present is high, you wouldn't usually get 15 going round together like a pack). I have never had to pass 15 dogs together on an ordinary street or outside a school, so this is not an everyday occurrence or the normal canine interaction the average person will encounter as part of "daily life". Parents who dont want their children to be exposed to this excessive pack in such a restricted space when they are carrying out an activity in which they have no choice are not being unreasonable, and it doesn't automatically make them frothing anti-dog haters - but the entitled behaviour of the dog walkers may well turn those parents into frothing anti-dog haters, if they don't start showing a little more consideration for others.

But that's what I don't get - why the build up of dogs in the morning? Just drop and keep moving.

Because, according to the OP, all the dog owners meet up AT THE SCHOOL GATES at 9am to take their dogs on a longer walk.

Apparently meeting somewhere else away from the school is too much for the OP and the 14 other dog owners to do. It might inconvenience them you see.

OP

If you are meeting to go for a walk why can't you do that somewhere else? Why does it have to be the school gates?

I see large groups of dog walkers in my local park, happy with that, that's where dog walking happens best, with lots of space. Outside a school, in a big group? Imbecilic really.

This is a "Monkeys Paw" story isn't it?

Originally the dogs were kept, tied up, in an area where children didn't need to be, whilst their owners collected their kids
There was a large paved area within the grounds but not in the playground, where people tied their dogs up. However, there were so many dogs that other parents complained and said it was "too much". However, they didn't think it through. I remember one woman who was cock-a-hoop that she had "won" in getting dogs banned from anywhere on the school grounds

After complaints by the non-dog owners, the head stopped the dogs being tied up in that area, so the dog owners were 'forced' outside onto te public highway
The parents who insisted on saying no to a dog area for dogs to be tied up out of the way. They didn't think it through. They have forced a situation that didn't need to happen. It is far worse to have 15 or so dogs along a 3 - 4 foot wide path

Be careful what you wish for.

(The HT cannot insist that no dogs are bought on the school run, no matter how distressing it may be for parents of children with dog fears. Some decent dog owners will do 'the right thing' for the sake of harmony, and the wish for dogs not to be demonised, but others are going to stamp their feet and go with the 'legal' aspect. The HT probably needs to reverse the decision about the tie-up area to keep the majority happy, rather than the squeaky wheel)

Perhaps if the parents want to control the environment around where their children are educated to that extent they should do it themselves? To keep their precious children away from undesirables, like dog owners. They could club together and form their own school, with rules against parents bringing dogs anywhere near the learning site, or they could carry on teaching them at home as they had for the previous four/five years? And hey, if they can't afford to do that and need the state to provide a free babysitter for them while they work, they should have thought about that before having children at all!

Oh come on, Noodle! Schools, and society, are for people, not dogs. Turn your silly comment around and replace children with dogs.

Frankly, most of the dog owners on this thread defending their "right" to take dogs on the school run are coming across as selfish and inconsiderate, including OP StIves with a bouncy dog. You do yourself far more harm than good.

I was brought up with dogs by the way, so have had plenty of experience. Not scared of them by any means, just don't like them.

Nowhere did the OP Say the dog owners "meet up at the school gates to take their dogs on a longer walk". That would be completely unreasonable not to say stupid. My reading of it is that the parents take their dogs with them on the walk to school then walk back home again. It's not some organised mass dog walk.

It is absolutely not selfish to take a well behaved dog with you on the school run. Anti social dogs are a completely different story and I'd have as much of an issue with them as anyone else. But it does seem that many people on this thread want to be able to avoid ALL dogs full stop and dictate to their owners where they can and can't go. And that's neither reasonable nor practical.

WTF? I always walk my dogs (2) to school, then we go to park.

I think that the suggestion that anyone who cannot cope with the walk through 15 dogs on a 4 foot wide enclosed path should change schools is unhelpful.

I really don't think you need to be a "dog hater" to feel uncomfortable walking through / walking a child, toddler or buggy through such an enclosed space with 15 dogs every day, with some of the dogs being "bouncy" and all of them are going to be within reach of the passers by.

It is also impractical from the perspective that people might have more than one child at the school, they would then have to move not just one child but siblings as well.

I can see that people like their dogs and everything but to refuse to see that this narrow path with 15 dogs situation is going to be scary for lots of people, not just those with an actual fear of dogs is something I find hard to understand. Also the idea that if (when?) someone gets "scratched or bitten" that's not a problem either. But with small children / babies a dog bite might be a problem surely?

So many posters on here I just don't understand their approach and it makes me quite sad TBH.

I agree with you Love. But I think a lot of people are actually pretty selfish. It is not illeagl to have 15 dogs in this situation, so sadly I don't see what anyone can actually do about it.

I think irrespective of number it is quite daft to take a dog you know is bouncy somewhere there is going to be a lot of children.

A well trained dog which happily sits/walks next to the owner is one thing but it's not really a sensible place for a dog who isn't yet that well trained.

Hello I'm the OP. I've been out today so missed the thread. The school sent parentmail around saying that all dog owners should only tie their dog up on a thick barrier/fence in the school grounds (rather than wait on the pavement outside the gate) as it is blocking the gate.

This is basically going back to how it was, whereby dog owners come into the school grounds.

This has lead to another Facebook message regarding it not being right to have dogs within the school grounds and they should be banned.

Another school mum pointed out that she would rather the dogs in one place where it is more space and away from the gate, than how it is currently.

Personally I a happy too.

Another school mum pointed out that she would rather the dogs in one place where it is more space and away from the gate, than how it is currently

This is the sensible solution definitely

"but the entitled behaviour of the dog walkers may well turn those parents into frothing anti-dog haters, if they don't start showing a little more consideration for others."

yy this.

Its a shame that everyone who feels that its not unreasonable for parents to object to their kids having to walk through 15 dogs after school every day is being branded as a dog hater.

That's not true at all. I really like dogs, so do my kids. Actually, my family would like those dogs to be about after school, I suspect. The only reason we don't currently have a dog is that right now it just would not be fair on the dog.

I have a problem, not with dogs, but with people using their dogs to behave like entitled arses. That doesn't show much respect for anyone, including the dog.

So the dog owners have bullied the HT into restoring the Status Quo. A fine example to their children.

Dogs don't belong on school premises, she was right to ban them in the first place. But hissy fits and strops from a small minority of self righteous people wins the day.

Don't particularly hate dogs but some dog owners are a real PITA - yet they can't see it.

Do the right thing and leave the animals at home and put humans first.

The dog owners are perfectly within their rights to wait outside on the pavement though. There is nothing anyone can do to stop them.

Nowhere did the OP Say the dog owners "meet up at the school gates to take their dogs on a longer walk". That would be completely unreasonable not to say stupid.

Sorry I mixed the OP up with this post

Which is why I'm going to carry on meeting friends at 9am at the school gates and will do so no matter what the school say.

Obviously more than one school having the same problem

Dog phobia is not normal. If a child had a bad encounter with ONE dog, he/she should be encouraged, not frightened for life.

Noodle- you are off your rocker.