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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Depressed and anxious about h's unwillingness to add me to deeds of house, have a will, or contemplate life insurance. Am I being unreasonable?

76 replies

tisrainingagain · 14/05/2014 18:06

I am fully prepared to accept that I am being unreasonable but please be gentle with me!!

H and I have been together for 18 years and married for 12.5 of those. We have three dc (8, 10 and 12 years old). The house we live in is in h's name. He bought it when we were already living together not married. When I met him he owned a shop with a flat on top of this and it is the equity from this and a house he bought and sold after that which meant he could buy our house (with a mortgage). H is divorced from his first wife and very bitter about the fact that she got their family home which was worth more than the building he was awarded, and included a flat which can be rented out. His ex wife has a son who was about 4 when she married my now h and must have been about 14 when they got divorced - so his stepson.

Fast forward 16 years (from the date that he bought our family home), and we are married and have had three children. I am a stay at home mum which feels a bit redundant now that my youngest is 8. My h has since bought 2.5 more properties (2 are rented out, the .5 he recently bought with his brother and is doing up) and a martello tower which, when he gets the money together and gets planning permission, can also be done up and rented out as a holiday let. So property is one aspect of h's business - he is self-employed. Despite owning all of this, the mortgage (especially now that he has bought half of a house with his brother) is not small and h works really hard and struggles to cover bills etc....

Anyway, that sets the scene. What irks me is the fact that throughout our marriage h has always viewed himself as in some way being alone. I am not sure where I stand in his life and in fact we never talk about the future. He is very affectionate towards the dc but not to me. We are getting on much better these days than we have recently (we went through quite a long rough patch) and chat away (as long as it is about general stuff), but he never puts an arm around me or says anything nice.

Basically, I feel that the fact that h does not want to put me on the deeds (which predates the rough patch, he has always thought this way), gives me the status of a mistrusted babysitter/housekeeper rather than an equal partner. The issue came up again yesterday and I have finally really understood that h has no intention of taking on board any of my anxieties, and it has kind of knocked me for six. I am now wondering what I am supposed to do as my existence feels kind of pointless. Is this a greedy overreaction? I think I thought that at some point h would realise my worth and empathise with me, and finally trust me.

From my point of view, if something were to happen to h tomorrow, there would be a massive mortgage and outgoings which I could not cover. A portion of the equity from the house would go to me but the rest would go in trust to the dc. Therefore we would be forced to sell up and move. This issue could be sorted out either through having a will or through me jointly being on the deeds of the house we live in (not the other ones he owns). I was trying to tell him yesterday how anxious it makes me feel that my future is uncertain in this way and he told me I was blackmailing him, that people behave in bad ways when money gets in the way and that he is not going to play the whole insurance game. I offered to pay for the adding of my name to the deeds and for the insurance (with an ISA that I have) but basically he wants things how he wants them.

So I feel that he does not trust me (and I was telling him that my being on the deeds would not mean that I am suddenly going to go running off with half the house) but that I am supposed to trust him implicitly. For all I know he could have a will leaving everything to whomever he wants. Our finances are separate in that he puts money on my account and I get child benefit and tax credits. I buy food and pay for everything concerning the children. He does and sees everything else.

So I don't know if I am being obsessive and greedy. I am 45 (h is 57) and feel that the position I am in is childlike. It's not really about the money but about feeling that h and I are equals and both in control of our lives together. At the moment I feel that he is in control (though he is not mean with money when he has it iyswim).

I also don't know if I am being morbid or if that is a symptom of not having enough purpose in life. H has recently been getting these weird symptoms where he is driving somewhere and no longer recognises streets that he is familiar with (he is now taking vitamin B12 - one of the symptoms of deficiency is memory loss and h has been a vegetarian all his life which makes it even more likely that he is deficient). Things like this make you realise that anything could happen at any time.

The other thing that I find difficult and I suppose they are connected, is the fact that, in the end, big decisions like whether we move or not and where to, are in h's hands (eg. he chose our last family car without consulting me). We spoke about that yesterday and he said yes, he does conduct his life on his own. I asked him what my place was in all of this and he said whatever I wanted it to be.

So now I feel that h and I can be together if I accept that my life may be in complete and utter disarray if he dies (despite the fact that he could set up something more secure for me and the kids if he wanted to), and that we never move from this house unless we move where he wants to go.

I FEEL SUFFOCATED AND ODDLY POINTLESS/REDUNDANT!!! Am I being greedy, grasping and or unreasonable? Should I just be more buddhist about all of it and be grateful that we have a roof over our head (which I am, very)?

OP posts:
tisrainingagain · 15/05/2014 09:19

Thanks Moosey, I do enjoy writing, I was involved in a campaign last year where I had to take loads of meeting minutes and it was great fun.

My sister fell out with my h a few years ago over some building work and their relationship has never really recovered or got off the ground again. She doesn't really like him. My Dad is much more prosaic and reckons that many men hold the same views about what is theirs due to the work that they do, and that (as a poster said) I would not be destitute were h to die suddenly (though of course he could donate everything he has to whomsoever he wants in a will Confused).

I have friends who occasionally come over in the afternoon with their children. We have one set of neighbours who sometimes come over on a Sunday for tea and cake... H has one close friend who comes over sometimes (sorry, too much information and detail here). His sister sometimes comes to stay with her partner and kids. Other than that however, we don't have people round I don't know if that means we are isolated. Though I love London, I do think it is a bit isolating in general.

I must stress that h works very hard (is/has been something of a workaholic) to pay the bills and provides us with a nice house. This is a massive contribution and maybe this is why he can't understand what I am asking...

Anyway, there is fallout from our conversation about deeds etc.. as I feel anxious and hurt and am being generally passive aggressive about stuff. He is also being passive aggressive and we have had several arguments about silly stuff already this morning.

Feel like telling him that I need affection and to be considered an equal partner. That I don't want to live in a house that does not feel like it is mine. Does that sound spoiled? So many people are in far worse circumstances, maybe I should just get on with it?

An example of the way h thinks took place this morning. Our youngest daughter is off school sick yesterday and today (and that's another thing about working full time, what happens when your kids are ill?), and has a history of being off school quite often. Sometimes that was due to her feeling a little unwell and hamming it up, other times she really is unwell (like this week). Anyway, I told h that maybe I should take her to the doctor for a blood test and he responded that she was fine, and that I was just wishing something upon her Hmm, also that I just wanted to take her because "I had the right to do so" Confused?? She probably is fine, but I think that's an over the top reaction to the mention of a blood test, even if he is feeling protective of her.

Anyway, I still have bad butterflies in my stomach over all of this and don't know how to move on mentally. It is true, AF, that in a way h expects to be left in the end - in a way he is very very fatalistic / realistic.

I am not sure why his first wife left him or why they got divorced. Apparently she had an affair but that can't be the only story.

I just don't know how to have some meaningful agency when it seems that h could carry on perfectly well without me. I suppose that is what he is doing, making sure that he is never left denuded as he feels he was before.

OP posts:
tisrainingagain · 15/05/2014 09:26

Though having said that about my Dad, despite being of an older generation, he and my Mum (who sadly passed away 7.5 years ago Sad) co-owned their house even though she was mostly a SAHM while married.

OP posts:
BranchingOut · 15/05/2014 10:38

A lot of sadness comes through in your posts.

I think that you are not powerless. At times in our lives we can begin to feel powerless, but that power is still there within us.

There are all sorts of small, small things that you can do to being increasing that power and agency in your own life.

Open up a bank account, if you do not already have one.

Begin actively managing any money that you do have access to. Filter off small amounts into high-yield savings options, such as Zopa (peer to peer lending) - you can put in as little as 10 a time and get it back whenever you want. All this can be done online.

Take an online course or an Adult Education course.

See a solicitor - your H does not need to know this.

Begin some volunteering.

Talk to people about wanting to get back to work - they may have ideas.

Look at the MN returning to work and starting your own business boards.

Keep posting on here!

AnotherFurry · 15/05/2014 10:41

OP the irony is that you would probably be much more financially secure if you divorced him now rather than if he was to suddenly die.

If he really can't see why you are entitled to be on the deeds and be considered in a will after all those years bringing up his family and enabling him to easily work full time etc then he really is an arse and doesn't deserve you at all.

BrunoBrookesDinedAlone · 15/05/2014 10:46

Go and get legal advice.

Property and cash are assets of the marriage whether he likes it or not.

Get legal advice and if you then fancy playing hardball, you should be able to make it clear to him that he has a choice - either put you on the deeds, set up joint accounts and give you full access to finances, and sort out wills and insurance, or you will divorce him for unreasonable behaviour (financial abuse being the key issue) and that will force sales of all the properties, with the bulk of assets coming to you as primary carer for the children.

It would be a slog, but you could do that. You are not powerless - you have a hell of a lot of power. He doesn't want you to know that you have. Make it clear that you are well aware of your rights, and I think you might see a change in him. If you don't - well then divorce is a pretty sensible next step anyway...

PersonOfInterest · 15/05/2014 13:00

So you walk on egg shells around him... Actually afraid to have certain discussions. It sounds miserable. Would you want one of your DC to stay in a relationship like this?

This is not normal for a marriage. Yes you'll always find someone worse off but that doesn't mean its ok for him to sideline and belittle you on everything. There is absolutely no compromise from him, no give at all on several issues that are really important to you (which should be enough) but are also widely recognised to be crucial for eg no will

It sounds like he works really hard. But wants to control/guard the rewards. Prevent you having any leverage.

If you are both at work you will have to take turns to stay off when children are ill. If he refuses, will that be the push you need to leave this man?

Thanks
BornFreeButinChains · 15/05/2014 13:37

He has got his cake and is eating it, he has everything the way he wants it, he is not exposing himself to risk like first time round, and he has his child rearer at home.

You are to afraid to put your foot down, and you only pluck up the courage to challenge him every so often.

He knows you will retreat shortly....and the matter can be put to bed.

He is not interested in keeping you happy because he doesnt need to he knows he has control over you and holds all the cards.

I think aside from all the over financial stuff you can do as suggested is go to RELATE and book yourself an appointment.

Call up today and get yourself in. When they ask about money say you are in a financially abusive relationship which is one reason you are coming to them...and pay what you can, they can do this.

Now hoping you get a good counsellor, they will have heard all this before and wil be able to help you - in how you need to think about this situation.

DH and I had some issues with in laws and we only went to one session and it was enough to provide us with some new ways of thinking about our situation ( we couldnt see wood for trees) and helped us, climb up out of our issues not that didnt happen over night...but they gave us some tools and ideas which helped us enourmously.

rather than going round and round in circles not actualy improving your situaion you need to move forward.

Taking help like relate...is giving you the mental and emotional tools to understand your problem and youself and your reaction to it, to move on.

Lets face it, thousands of women are also like you and thousainds would never put up with this ( but would other stuff).

what you have is not an impossible problem, you need help. thats all.

specialsubject · 15/05/2014 14:15

wow, how horrible for you OP. I say LTB but of course it isn't that easy.

he sounds very immature - news for him, he WILL die and so making preparation is sensible, not tempting fate.

if he was that insecure he could have arranged a prenup.

I think your worm needs to turn because you are exactly what you say; babysitter/housekeeper/breeder. Marriage should be a partnership of equals.

I hope you can make him see sense and give you the life you deserve. If not, take it by making your own arrangements.

but do something because right now you are at big financial risk, as are your kids.

MistressDeeCee · 15/05/2014 15:07

OP I hope you take some of the further advice given, and keep that phrase some have written financial abuse at the forefront of your mind. Don't take too long before seeking appropriate and legal advice, will you? & then finding your feet. Don't let him steal your good years away from you. We only get 1 life Thanks

kentishgirl · 15/05/2014 15:27

YANBU.

I was foolish in my last relationship - not married, all sorts of vague promises but reasons excuses not to actually do anything. When we split up he got the house and everything. I got nothing.

Your situation legally is a bit different as you are married, but you should still be financially planning together and making appropriate arrangements. Any partner who isn't willing to do this, is unwilling for a reason. That reason being they don't want you to get anything.

As a contrast, I'm in a newish (one year) relationship, planning to get married next year, and we are already sorting stuff out. He arranged to have me put on the life insurance part of his pension without me even thinking of that. He's now considering taking his pension pot next year when the rules change and investing it in both our names. A completely different attitude. It's nice to be trusted, and to be with someone who genuinely considers a joint future.

Bogeyface · 15/05/2014 16:11

The irony is that he thinks he is protecting himself in case you leave him, but by doing that he is making it more likely that you will!

Have you tried to explain that to him?

tisrainingagain · 15/05/2014 22:11

It is difficult to talk about this subject with him. It's not that he is mean on a day to day basis at all. He struggles to pay the bills and in fact in some ways I have access to more cash than he does. However I think he really does not understand what I am driving at re. my feeling anxious about the future and wanting to be on an equal footing with him. His Dad was an alcoholic and his parents separated when he was 15. He subsequently went through his own divorce. I don't think he has any concept of togetherness. He has recently taken out an pension annuity as a single person (I found the paperwork, he did not tell me). I think this is because he does not have the money (and it's a small amount) to pay a larger premium, but stuff like this makes me feel as if he doesn't care about me. In the present, however, he looks after all of us by working really hard. Difficult to get my head round.

There was I telling him that having my name on the deeds does not mean that I am going to run off with half the house, yet here I am 3 days later feeling much more disconnected from him and like I would love to run off with half the house!!

OP posts:
tisrainingagain · 15/05/2014 22:29

By access to cash, I mean for everyday purchases. He is the one who is able to get loans and fund them etc...

Anyway, wanted to say thanks for all your input and suggestions. Have pulled myself together somewhat and now that I have digested h's lifeview and attitude towards me, in some ways that frees me to focus on my own financial future and what I can do about it.

OP posts:
BeyondRepair · 15/05/2014 22:41

Its great to focus about your finanical future but I would be looking at my relationship with such a selfish man. there are always excuses, I am sure hitler had some, unloved as a child, turned down for art school bla bla.

We are in the present, we are living, we are going to die.

Stop saying how hard your DH works usually they all work hard, do you think he deserves a medal?

They work hard, you work hard we all work hard, at home or at home. So bloody what.

Stop being so grateful. Start demanding more.

Who cares if its a difficult subject for him, how would be dicussing and going through divorce no 2 be to him?

Its hard for him to talk about it.

How bloody hard will it be if he suddenly dies right now, for you ?!

selfish blinkered arse.

BeyondRepair · 15/05/2014 22:43

I am sorry to say men like this who are so blind and blinkered often only respond when their back is to the wall ie.

right, I have tried to approach you, you will not even discuss this with me, so therefore I am going to divorce you and I do not wish to discuss it.

men like that need hard BALL

tisrainingagain · 16/05/2014 07:07

Thanks BeyondRepair you are right re. me not demanding what I really need. The thing about playing hardball is that h is more than likely to say f* off then, which is what happened during our rough patch. Don't know what he would do if I took things further and it really looked like we were going to get divorced. He is incredibly stubborn. If it ever does come to divorce, it will have to be because I really see no other option, because if I use it as a bargaining tool, all it will lead to is a cold war and months of not talking.
While I try to digest all of this, I am going to move my focus away from all things domestic (and I'm not even a very good housekeeper so what was that all about Hmm) and concentrate on what I need to do for me. Thanks for your direct post because it's what I need. I need to tell h that what I need is a relationship where there is trust, equality, and I am able to talk about any concerns. I am not sure what h needs. Mainly he is happy to have the kids. I am sure he would like more practical support from me but I feel that I have wasted many years not looking after my own future and need to start doing it now.

OP posts:
PersonOfInterest · 16/05/2014 12:18

I think you're right to start thinking very hard about what you can do to secure your future and looking after yourself.

Agree with beyond. He works hard. Good. So do you. Moving on that doesn't excuse him from other responsiblities - like having a discussion with his wife.

You say he doesn't have much money. It sounds like you don't have a clue about what he has/does financially. Sorry to say but he could have loads of cash/investments and you may not have a clue. Also he clearly has lots of assets tied up in property. (in his brothers name for all you know).

Good luck with making a plan. Is there someone you can talk to in rl about creating a detailed plan and how to execute it?

Viviennemary · 16/05/2014 12:43

I agree that there are two sides. He thinks he was unfairly treated after his first marriage ended and doesn't want the same thing to happen again. But I can see why you are not happy with this situation. And good point about if one of the properties was in your name the rent could be part of your tax free allowance.

I think SAHMS with no income of their own for a length of time are in a vulnerable position. IMHO.

BeyondRepair · 16/05/2014 13:31

  • The thing about playing hardball is that h is more than likely to say f off then, which is what happened during our rough patch*

what a horrible thing to say. Maybe you should?

As person says, he could have loads squirrelled away, all the wealthiest people I know act like paupers, scrimping ad saving...Buying houses for hundreds of thousands on one hand, but on the other, getting het up about saving 30p on car parking tickets and so on.

Good luck, you can help yourself, you can get out of this, marriage or financial constraints, its not impossible. Flowers

BeyondRepair · 16/05/2014 13:33

I agree that there are two sides. He thinks he was unfairly treated after his first marriage ended and doesn't want the same thing to happen again

So its OK to punish his wife and mother of his children because once he thinks he was fleeced somewhere by some totally different person...?

You dont carry things over and if you do there are issues you need to address.

sezamcgregor · 16/05/2014 13:50

If I were you, I'd:

See a solicitor
Make a Will for myself
Take out life insurance on the both of you

Whatever else legal advice advises

BornFreeButinChains · 16/05/2014 14:36

Can I add relationship counsellor to your list SEZ so she can put her feelings and wishes into perspective and will help to give her emotional and mental strengh to move forward be it, to work on marriage or leave.

OxfordBags · 16/05/2014 14:56

I've got a newsflash for him, OP: he IS going to die one day.

But before that happens, you need to sort out your life. What you are describing is an abusive relationship. Not just the money side of things, which IS financial abuse, but all thebother aspects of how he treats you. You daren't talk to him for fear of how he'll behave appallingly about things that you shouldn't even have to talk to him about because they should be your automatic right!

You are NOT spoiled, greedy, any of that. In fact, you are depressingly, worryingly diminishing of yourself. You are accepting being treated like shit and feeling guilty for any normal feelings or needs. You are the opposite of greedy. You actually need to get to a normal level of expectation, never mind worrying about being greedy.

And it is very worrying that you talk about wanting to leave him so you have have some control over your own life, and be responsible for your own life - because you should have total control and responsibility for your own life already, SAHM or not.

VivienneMary - SAHMs are only in precarious financial situations when married to cunts or abusers. If you're with a normal, decent man, there's no worries.

BornFreeButinChains · 16/05/2014 14:58

You are the opposite of greedy. You actually need to get to a normal level of expectation, never mind worrying about being greedy

YY to whole post esp this line.

AnandaTimeIn · 16/05/2014 20:53

I agree. You need legal and individual counselling.

You sound so worn down...

How do you know he hasn, t made a will leaving all to his brother?

Start making copies of all his papers and keep them where he can, t find them..

FFS woman, you need to get some security for you and DCs!

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