did everyone know this was a racist song? (am i the only one who didnt?)

[deakymom]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-27360884

okay so basically the sun has got his hat on has the n word in it i never knew that i spoke to someone about it and they gave me the look "everyone knows that don't they?" no i didnt we used to sing it in school i really dont remember that word being there?

am i the only one who didnt know?

I really struggle to work out what I think about arguments about reclaiming the word nigger. I completely that some African-Americans have taken the word and by reclaiming it, have diluted the venom the word contains and similar things have occusred with some British Asians reclaiming Paki and people with disabilities reclaiming terms like cripple or spastic.

I get that within the context of insider groups that this could have a transformative effect, but I fear the argument starts to break down when it appears in mainstream media, such as hip hop or films. If the word is intended to be a term for use within a marginalised group, don't plaster it over multi-platinum selling hip hop records aimed at white suburban teenagers.

It also give succour to bigots who will say things like 'Jay-z refers to himself as a nigger in this song, so I can use it with impunity.' Neither teenagers or bigots are known for their appreciation of nuance and context. It becomes a bit of a Pandora's box.

I really struggle to work out what I think about arguments about reclaiming the word nigger.

I have this sorted in my head: It is my personal opinion that it is offensive whoever uses it. However, as I am white, I accept that if a black person wants to use it I am really not in a position to argue. If they wish to say they are "reclaiming" it then fine. They are reclaiming it for themselves, not for me, a white person.

I can still find it odd that it's perfectly OK to play these songs on the radio but not very old ones where no offence was intended though.

Apocalypse - The fact is, the song has genuinely racially offensive language ... The BBC article, in the OP, says the n-word was taken out of the song in later versions. Due to the nature of the show, the original 1935 version was played.

There's no reason in the world why the DJ would know one word had been changed since then.

NotNew and Compos - there are lots of 'negative' words that are used by those they apply to, but rude if used by others. Scouser is one. In the same vein, I can call myself a lazy cow but am less than impressed if other people do.

there are lots of 'negative' words that are used by those they apply to, but rude if used by others

Then don't use them.

It really is that simple.

Trying to justify the n-word in the context of reclaiming, empowering, subversive or ironic use is merely patronising and confusing claptrap spewed out by over-intellectualising fools tying themselves in knots trying not to offend.

It's a nasty word. Don't use it. Any of you.

I tend to agree

Do rappers use this word on mainstream radio? I don't think I've ever heard it. Although I have heard it in Oliver's army. By mainstream I mean outside of any rap specific shows?

On another note I used to share a room with 2 racist idiots in my singlie days. They listened to rap snd I never understood why

I have this sorted in my head: It is my personal opinion that it is offensive whoever uses it. However, as I am white, I accept that if a black person wants to use it I am really not in a position to argue. If they wish to say they are "reclaiming" it then fine. They are reclaiming it for themselves, not for me, a white person.

Exactly this, but as a white middle class liberal, I am not in a position to say to a black person who has had the word used against them, 'you are not to use or not to reclaim this word, it is offensive.' They could quite reasonably turn round and say: you are not likely to have it used against you, who are you to say how we try to limit the sting of this word.'

as a white middle class liberal, I am not in a position to say to a black person who has had the word used against them, 'you are not to use or not to reclaim this word, it is offensive.

Of course you are.

You think it an abhorrent word.

To choose not to point that out to someone based on the colour of their skin is, in my opinion, racist. You remaking a decision based on the colour you see.

Now, if you spent time talking to that person about their use of the word, your liberal dilemma, your respective experiences etc, then you'd be in a position to judge.

But blanket decision based on skin colour? When it happens to me, I feel patronised. I don't want to be spoken for or have racist words okayed by someone who is freaking about about whether they appear small-minded rather than just bloody well asking me how I feel.

I think everyone is able to decide for themselves.

I'm not white. I detest the word. Please don't speak for me or excuse it in order to establish your liberal credentials.

This is why I love the British

I'm not white. I detest the word. Please don't speak for me or excuse it in order to establish your liberal credentials.

I am not speaking for you, just as you don't speak for all people of colour. I am just saying that I can understand the process of why people who had the word nigger deployed against them would attempt to reclaim it and rob it of its power to hurt. I am not saying you or anyone should do this, but can understand the thought process behind someone making that decision.

I wish, wish, wish, wish they would sack Clarkson so much more now.

Clarkson deliberately used a racial epithet. Although apparently without realising that a slang term for a particular ethnicity could be offensive.

In a statement, Wilman responded: "When we used the word "slope" in the recent Top Gear Burma special it was a light-hearted wordplay joke referencing both the build quality of the bridge and the local Asian man who was crossing it.

"We were not aware at the time, and it has subsequently been brought to our attention, that the word 'slope' is considered by some to be offensive and although it might not be widely recognised in the UK, we appreciate that it can be considered offensive to some here and overseas, for example in Australia and the USA.

at Clarkson

Here:

The line is 'He's been tanning niggers, out in Timbuktu. Now he's coming back to do the same to you. So jump into your sun bath, hip-hip hooray'.

It is the original recording, and has been on TV and radio a number of times (recently even) before:

www.corsasport.co.uk/board/viewthread.php?tid=565193
www.theguardian.com/media/2012/jun/26/itv-n-word

can understand the thought process behind someone making that decision

I can't.

I appreciate that some people choose to behave provocatively and enjoy shocking others and using words aggressively.

I think it's a bit childish to be honest.

I know someone who insists in using that word in front of white people because he likes making them uncomfortable.

He used it in front of my children and he is no longer welcome in my house. My family fought too long and too hard against racial abuse to condone it.

It's fashionable posturing at best and it makes me sad and angry in equal measure.

Come to think of it, that album also had Puff the Magic Dragon and Two Little Boys on

Huh! What am I missing? Is there any reason why either of those songs is not acceptable now?

Two little boys was sung by Rolf Harris, who is on trial for sexual assault. Puff the magic dragon is associated with drug use.

Pfft. (Or puff ) In the 60s & 70s, grumpy adults could read drug references into any song lyrics at all. You had to be there to believe it! And if it wasn't drug references, it was satanic incantations played backwards. Extra points if you could read both into one song.

Two little boys was sung by Rolf Harris, who is on trial for sexual assault

So what? Even if he is found guilty I am no fan of this idea that just because someone has been shamed this automatically taints all their work and makes it unplayable. No-one is going to come to any harm by listening to charming songs like Two Little Boys or jake the Peg.

Puff the magic dragon is associated with drug use.
Agree with Garlic on this that people read to much in to things. Anyway I remember learning a tap dance to Puff the Magic Dragon for a tap exam and that was in the early 70s so it can't have been a universally held belief.

monte I can fully understand why you feel that way and my personal view is pretty close to that in that it is a word that should never be directed at another human being. I can on the other hand understand the rationale for attempting to neutralise the word that has been used to wound you. I don't think it successful or unproblematic and has had unintended consequences. But I can see why someone could come to that view.

The song comes from the musical 'Me and My Girl', and when this was re-written (and became a huge hit in London and on Broadway' in the early 80s) all the lyrics and book were revised by Stephen Fry, and this particular lyric became He's been roastin peanuts out in Timbuctoo Here is a copy of all the verses - for all of you to sing to your children....

www.lyricsfreak.com/m/me+and+my+girl/the+sun+has+got+his+hat+on_10177678.html

Puff the Magic Dragon has got nothing to do with drug use. Have you watched the cartoon?

And Two Little Boys has very little to do with Rolf Harris, predating him by decades

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_Little_Boys

On the reclaiming of the n word maybe rappers really want to reclaim it as a word to describe 19th century minstrel troupes but it seems unlikely.

I don't think it neutralises the word. I understand the reasons behind calling a band NWA but also feel continued use of the word is trying to be shocking just for the sake of it rather than being genuinely shocking to make people think.

I tend to agree that if a word isn't suitable for 1 group to use then it isn't suitable for anyone.

Gay is completely unobjectionable whether one is or isn't homosexual and/or cheerful.It's a good word in either of its meanings and should be reclaimed from idiots who use it as an insult.

Compos you sound far more tolerant than I!

I think Bill Cosby has it pretty well. Rappers calling themselves niggas are perpetuating negative stereotypes, not dispelling them. How is it reclaiming the word, when the people singing 'nigga nigga nigga' have criminal records as long as your arm and many end up dead in pointless killings?