To be upset that there are 3 Ukip posters up in houses down my road :(

[LEMmingaround]

It is a pretty working class street, some council, some privately owned houses. Not sure if that is relevant but WHY the fuck would you advertise the fact that you are a fuckwit? All of the people with the notices up are older people - older than me, which is 43 (im not older!!!! - ok, maybe a bit).

Its pretty worrying really that what i would normally see as very respectable folk have been sucked in by this bullshit?

This is a conservative ward, and although dissilussioned with the previous gov i have always voted labour - i am going to have to vote bloody tory in a half beat effort to keep Ukip out of the area :(

My DD lives in a town with a ukip counsellor - its fucking dire and getting worse :(

I can understand that you are frightened Devere.

But stopping people having their say isnt the way to go about things.

Debates were.
But they were not debates, they were shouting, perhaps born out of fear and worry?

I sincerely hope that the message about mass imigration does not equal racism is getting through.

fwiw, I think that Farage will stuff up in some way, between now and the General. Or he may moderate?
I am not even sure that he is up to the job of leading a national party properly. We shall see.

Oh, lackaDAISIcal- you might just want to check that irony bypass of yours..........

MrsBlackthorn Sun 11-May-14 20:33:33

"Can you supply those stats? Because the ONS, Nomis and .gov.uk don't support what you're saying. The data set I'm referring to is the ONS's Long Term International Migration annual release"

To use those ONS figures like I have been saying is out of date, check the ONS revised figures as released in April 2014.

www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CDEQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.parliament.uk%2Fbriefing-papers%2Fsn06077.pdf&ei=WftvU9SuM4SlPeqVgaAE&usg=AFQjCNFv_sKfGqsF4LNhmk5zZN8J2-4ZTA&sig2=0t_f6zihwu_DJ7B6R3Z0aQ&bvm=bv.66330100,d.ZWU&cad=rja

"In April 2014 the ONS published a revised set of net migration estimates for the United Kingdom for the period 2001 to 2011. Total net migration during this period is now estimated to have been 346,000 higher than was previously thought – the original estimate of 2.18 million having been revised to 2.53 million"

Please look at Table A2: Original and revised estimates of net migration, 1991-2012

Between 1997 – 2012 net immigration totals 3,214,000. According to the ONS in 2013 net migration was 212,000 bringing the figure to 3,426,000.

Note: This does not include asylum seekers or illegal immigrants.

Note the reason for the revision to statistics – The ONS were conservative in their estimations of net immigration, over 16% out on their revisions... “The results of the 2011 Census showed that the population of England and Wales was larger than expected… since the last Census in 2001. The Census-based mid-year population estimate for England and Wales in 2011 was 464,000 higher than the equivalent estimate rolled forward from the 2001 Census. The ONS identified several possible causes for the difference but considered that the “largest single cause is most likely to be underestimation of long-term immigration from central and eastern Europe in the middle part of the decade”.

So even by ONS conservative figures for net legal immigration it comes to 3.43m since 1997.

google this link and download the House of Commons Library document if that link I posted didn't work

www.parliament.uk/briefing-papers/sn06077.pdf

kins I don't think I do shut down debate and I think UKIP have had a lot of coverage and opportunity to express their views.

They also seem to get away with a hell of a lot i.e. one of their Councillors says something vile and it is brushed off with 'we didn't realise he thought disabled people are a burden/abortion of babies with Down Syndrome should be compulsory/women are sluts/there is a place called Bongo Bongo land/Lenny Henry should go back where he came from

there is a bit of harrumphing. Some photo opportunities with NF holding up a pint of bitter and things just move on. Until the next time.

I don't think most people who support UKIP do so because they understand the workings of the EU. They are supporting what they think they stand for. That is Britain for the British. British meaning white and UK born.

Line up 100 Ukip supporters and ask them to explain the EU. How many do you think would give you a cogent answer? Not because they are thick but because they don't care. UKIP is the BNP for people who think state sanctioned violence against black people is just a step too far.

There must be some people who feel passionately about the real issues of the EU (aside from straight bananas and the metric system) but I really do not believe they form the majority of the UKIP vote.

Yes, that's the very briefing paper that I linked to above and suggested you read.

The data set I linked to, above, was indeed the 2014 ONS data. From the government's own stats website.

YABU. We live in a democracy with freedom of speech.

So, MillieH30, how does being upset about this limit anyone's right to freedom of speech or affect democracy? OP isn't suggesting that stupid UKIP posters should be banned, she's simply pointing out, correctly, that putting up such posters outs you as a fuckwit.

I think that UKIP have a lot of coverage by the media. I have been surprised by quite how much.

I also think that they are getting away with a lot.
I think that they are getting away with a lot because
a.they are a novelty . And perhpas I am guilty of this as well, now I come to write it.
b. people have felt shut up for so long that they just dont care anymore - dangerous
c.we all know that others in other parties have, lets say, unusual views abut things too
d. loads of us are fed up to the back teeth of the other parties, so we may as well try this one as any. Who knows, it may work out ok? Worth a gamble

Devere - Apparently all 0.3% of councillors accused, (10 out of over 2000) were removed so you can't say the party doesn't deal with morally questionable candidates. Not that I am defending them. I am simply against how the EU has changed over the past 4 decades since our admittance, from being a trade arrangement to what is today a political union. There are many issues that should be debated in Parliament but only back-bench Conservatives seem to ever push the EU question. Understandably this anti-EU party is gaining support as they raise plenty of valid concerns. I hate the scaremongering but equally I cannot abide the ignorant claims some people make without looking at the facts

Some photo opportunities with NF holding up a pint of bitter and things just move on

Agreed that this has worked a charm.

I don't think most people who support UKIP do so because they understand the workings of the EU

True for some and not others. There has been discontent with the EU for many,since we went into it!

British meaning white and UK born.

I think that this is changing. Quite a lot in some areas. There have been important strides in the right direction on this.

UKIP is the BNP for people who think state sanctioned violence against black people is just a step too far.

I think, sadly, that you are right for some. There are some that can be educated, but not all.

sunday eventually they are. The guy in Cornwall who told mothers of children with SN that their children were a burden hung on for ages. It wasn't the first questionable thing he said either.

To attract one of these people is unfortunate. To attract 2 or three is worrying but to attract the amount of fully paid up members who seem unwilling or unable to acknowledge that hold such views is not just a case of being 'courageously un PC', is scary.

I accept that there are people who are genuinely concerned about the UK being part of the EU. It is not a concern I share but I wouldn't dream of telling them they shouldn't hold those views.
But to think that the majority, populist vote for UKIP is made up of these people is surely naive?

The guy in Cornwall
I think that he was Liberal Democrat

I think that the thing about him was that in other respects, he was much respected by a lot of people, and that is why he stayed so long?
But yes, he did have those way out wrong views.

That should have been a not a . Sorry.

Yes but who is doing the scare mongering, UKIP want to get out of europe it seems its everyone else who is claiming they will start a nazi party and drive out current immigrants and all the rest, who is scaremongering?

Colin Brewer was an Independent Councillor.

My mistake but he was independent not Lib dem.
Confusion comes from Cornwall electing several UKIP candidates.

They must suffer dreadfully from the effects of immigration down there.

Mrs Blackthorn - I had to search for that paper, you only linked the ONS website. Also why are you claiming it is less than 3 million if that is the case!?

By ONS estimates it is 3.43 million net since 1997 excluding illegal immigration and asylum seekers. The 4 million figure is very likely to be close once these anomalies are factored in

Devere - "I accept that there are people who are genuinely concerned about the UK being part of the EU. ..But to think that the majority, populist vote for UKIP is made up of these people is surely naive?"

Agreed, I don't know what the reasons are. I wish David Cameron would lead on this matter and open up the debate.

The problem with focusing on bold statements is the risk of not reading the small print. If it was just about controlling future immigration that would be one thing. But it's not. From their website:

"Prioritise social housing for people whose parents and grandparents were born locally."

This is blatant discrimination. But hey anti- discrimination is just political correctness and you know what they think of that:

"No to Political Correctness - it stifles free speech."

This is just the tip of the iceberg.

No to Political Correctness - it stifles free speech.

This is the one that gets me, Richard Scudamore will do well under these people.

Agree Lumpy, who exactly do they think are currently being gagged and unable to express themselves openly due to "Political Correctness" that they must be liberated to speak without recourse?

And I assume that all those showing UKIP support are earning £32k ++ p/a and hoping to profit from the flat tax rate being proposed or maybe they earn minimum wage or perhaps they're in the inbetween band and altruistically willing to shoulder the extra tax burden instead of the uber high earners, in return for a free speaking, pure British society comprising those of British born grandparentage.

From memory (I can't remember the dates) the government decided that they would change the way that they held illegal immigrants, instead of being held in the southern counties they where shipped off around the UK.

This did have a major effect on some of the towns that they where shipped off too, It wasn't the fault of the illegal immigrants but it had a detrimental affect on those living in those areas.

One of those effects was a major swing to the far right.

On the topic of free speech look at recent cases in the media. One chap was arrested for citing a Churchill quote in the street, word for word. The CPS are considering prosecuting. I would imagine people with views concerning immigration and other sensitive topics would welcome this motion. Especially in light of how left wing groups like the UAF have been disrupting meetings, spoiling advertising boards and using offensive signs, gestures and words towards the canvasing UKIP candidates and supporters. There are the odd cases that make you sit up and wonder but it is a strange one. I wonder how many people are affected by this issue.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/10792895/Election-candidate-arrested-over-Churchill-speech.html

www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/3002385/posts

Might it possibly be this bit of Winston Churchill's writing the man concerned was reading?
How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries. Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in manycountries, improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methodsof commerce and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement, the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either asa child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men
Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities, but the influence of the religion paralyzes the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step, and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it (Islam) has vainly struggled, the civilization of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilization of ancient Rome

"There I was, just innocently reading out a bit of Winston Churchill, and for mo reason at all, i was arrested. It's political correctness gone mad, I tell you."