to be regretting third child and feeling have messed everything up - advice from academics especially welcome

[fantastickfox]

I have just had my third baby, so aware I am probably sleep deprived and hormonal. He is a beautiful baby (obviously) and easy so far in comparison to my others. Before I had him I obsessed for about two years about having another child, I felt incomplete and so sad at the thought of having no more - I would get panicky thoughts about my 2 children just being the two of them and what if something happened to one of them leaving the other alone, etc. I could not bear the thought of never being pregnant/ giving birth again, it really did preoccupy me and I am generally, I think, a reasonable rational person. I have to admit I pressurised my partner into this and it was not what he wanted really, which I feel very bad about.

Now, however, it is only just beginning to hit me what a huge and irreversible thing I have done. I love my baby obviously but I am starting to realise what should have been obvious before but I couldn't see about the effect this will have on our family, our older children (5 and 3) not being able to do things we were just beginning to do easily eg take them swimming and on holiday, and I feel I have let them down. I know these things are maybe relatively minor and I have lost perspective a bit in the post natal period. Most of all I feel I have let my partner down, he is a devoted dad but if it wasn't for me would have waited to have children. He is a post-doc and as a result of choosing to settle down when we did has been unable to follow the standard career path of lots of short term contracts in different places worldwide which I understand is almost expected, He has stayed in the same place since we had our eldest child and feels his career has suffered as a result, along with the impact of having children and being able to put in fewer hours, as a result of which he has not got as many good publications as he would have wanted and has been unable to secure a lectureship. The third child thing has not actually altered this state of affairs, but probably isn't going to help. I feel I have messed things up for everyone and don't know what to do. I have suggested (many times) he go and work away eg in the states for a bit, but he is reluctant to leave the kids and says we can't afford it and it is too late.

Would really appreciate both advice in general about the impact of the third child on managing to keep doing things with the older 2 without them missing out, but also perspectives of any academics as I am not in that world and only have my partner's experience to go on. Sorry for long post!
W

On probabtion, OP - don't worry about that at all. A two-three year probation is standard in permanent contracts and it's unheard of not to pass probation. Seriously, as long as you vaguely do your job you'll pass probation. That's one less thing you need worry about.

Sorry for not reading the other posts, I don't have time to read them now but I wanted to reply because I'm in a very very similar position.
We have three boys aged 5, 3 and nearly one, and my husband is a stagnated post dic researcher. He's still at the same uni he did his phd at ten years ago, while everyone else seems to have moved onwards and upwards, largely because I wanted babies sooner than was sensible, and was rather blase after the sevond, hence an unplanned third.
I'm not sure I have any advice, but I can relate to all those feelings you mentioned in the op. I think its quite a normal feeling. I wanted a third, even though I never expected to, but during the pregnancy it started to dawn on me what it really meant. I feel very sad that I can't get the children out by bike on my own now the summer is here, and that I'm much less willing to take them on little adventures, and i can't play board games with the older children, because I'm basically overstretched.
I'm hoping that this is the worst phase, because theyre all so little and need so much from me. Surely it will balance out as they get bigger?! I think once the youngest is three things will start to get a bit easier.
One thing that gives me hope is that I've noticed, among my friends with three children, that after the third the father seems to get very very stressed and a bit bonkers. Mine certainly did, and our relationship was strained in a way it wasn't after the first two. But that seems to have calmed down in the last few months and thinking of the other families I know, they also seem to find their new equalibrium by about the first year. I think longingly of how it would be with just two, more often than id like to admit, but of course I wouldn't send number three back given the chance.

You will feel better soon about Dc3. Hormones are shitty things.

But this doesn't really have anything to do with your husband's work and progression or lack thereof. It feels like he is blaming his family situation for it but your children are small and portable. If he needs to move then move, you will find another job or he could commute.

There's no right way to do things.

It might not where you are Janine and it might not be now but it's the way things are moving.

I think you work in HE admin, NeartheWindy so perhaps you have a different view where you are. Perhaps you're extrapolating?

I've worked in four UK universities, my DH has worked in another 2, and I've never come across that before. Different for chairs, of course.

I hope it's not the way things go, actually. Seems like another pointless way to add to academic workloads.

Hi OP, I understand your baby is tiny so it must feel overwhelming. As you know, no situation is perfect and there is no perfect time to have children. I waited and waited as I was doing a PhD, and then just went for it and managed it. It has been really hard but I've now got a permanent lectureship and two children. Having lost two other babies in pretty nasty circumstances, I'd say that if you can, count your blessings. I've longed for a third/fourth for a long time but am now too nervous, and probably too old to try again and wish I'd focussed on that rather than all the publishing etc.
I also think your dh needs to get his act together a bit more, and you to stop indulging him by taking on any feelings of guilt or worry. Just think of all the difficult situations people have forged a career in, or had to work through. Hope you feel supported and unworried soon.

No need to put it in such a patronising manner Janine. My role requires professional qualifications and non academics are not quite as dozy as many academics like to infer. The attitude is neither smart nor clever.

We're recruiting lecturers in our dept at the moment. We haven't externally assessed them, but we have of coursed examined the CVs, looked up their h indices, citation rates, etc to get an idea of their likely REF preformance, on top of the usual concerns about evidence of funding success and a clear plan for their research once they join us.

It's not as hard to get a position in my field as in some other sciences, and people usually only post-doc for up to 5 years max, but REF is definitely changing things somewhat. The good thing now, however, is that it's long enough until the next REF that people can get jobs on potential without necessarily needing the papers in the current REF window yet.

OP - if your DH's project isn't going well he really needs to get some other side-project papers out or find something about his current project he can turn into a paper. He sounds like he's got a case of academic perfectionism where he's so focused on achieving X or else it's all a failure that he's actually hindering himself. I had CBT for an unrelated issue years ago, but my therapist spent some time getting me to be more realistic about my work too as he felt it was all part of the same perfectionism issue. It did me the world of good. Does your DH have a mentor in his dept other than his PI who he could talk to about how to build his publications?

Eitherway, if he's owrking 70 hour weeks then your children have done nothing to his career, it's all him. I miss working 55 hour weeks but even on 40 hours a week I'm still getting data, still publishing, teachign etc. It's just a matter of focus.

I've seen a few academic CVs recently and the norm seems to be to put the H index and top ranking journal articles at the top to make the likely contribution to REF clear. This is for Chair/Prof level though, I don't know if it's the same at lower levels.

Not intended to be patronising at all, Windy, merely pointing out that different roles bring differing perspectives and varying experiences. I think you're the one who's inferring, in a rather prickly manner, actually.

Thanks everyone - Lettheriveranswer, it does sound like you are in a very similar position to me, it is nice to hear in a way as I don't know anyone else in this position. I don't have any friends who are academics, or married to one (one friend's husband is a lecturer but they just seem more sorted than us because of this!) Most of my friends are very settled, both partners working and on good incomes without too much uncertainty, which is hard when I compare how we are. I think I too wanted babies sooner than was sensible, but as other posters have said the flip side may have been dealing with potential fertility problems, you just never know.

I am feeling a bit better than when I first posted though think partly as my dh has been in a better mood, partly due to the new project he has started working on. I do still feel v up and down, particularly when the kids are being hard work, but am trying to just get on with things as I know they will get easier (yes probably when youngest is about 3!) So many people do have 3 or even more I think I was a bit blase, it just really has hit me the things we won't be able to do for a while - on the plus side both kids, especially my older dd really seem to love their little brother so hopefully it will be good in the long term.