...to want to say 'honour and obey' in my vows?

[SteelyMindedLiberal]

Background: we're both feminists. He's a strong personality, very intelligent, very loving, considerate, supports my career, does (more than) half the housework, cooking etc. We're not Christian or conservative.

But...

I am completely submissive to him and he sets the tone in every aspect of our relationship. Obviously there is a strong (and very hot!) BDSM undercurrent to all this. But it goes way beyond the bedroom: he leads, I follow, it's obvious and noticeable, and we both love it.

He's 'in charge'; never controlling. I am always listened to, and feel completely equal. I just do as he says and trust him to do the right thing. We're not ashamed of how we are, it's fundamental to us and because of that we want it to be included in our vows. He says it's up to me but he would like it very much, and I really, really want to say it.

BUT: it would mean outing our 'activities' to all our family and friends. I don't want our wedding to become all about that one line. Maybe no one would really care or give it any thought? We're happy to simply say: 'that's our dynamic and it works for us', to most people, but he has a 20-year-old daughter and it's her we're most worried about. She's sassy and worldly and she'd get it at once and probably be fine with it in private, but might find it really embarrassing and awkward... argh!

Help! It's the whole please ourselves or please others thing, I suppose...

It is an interesting debate feminist in a bdsm relationship.

I don't know the right or wrong answers on this, but my view is that femism is about having the same rights and opportunities as a male.

The right to submit to your Husband as women have done for hundred of years? If that is what feminism was about, I wouldn't be a feminist.

Frankly, I don't care what consenting adults do in the bedroom. I do care when somebody says they are a feminist! and then says that she is submissive to a man in all aspects of a relationship.

I also care when anyone, man, woman, straight or gay consistently dominates or consistently is submissive to another person in anything but bedroom fantasy life.

And I care very much about children being brought up to believe that to be submissive or to be dominant is a good way to be in a relationship. And if that is what they see modelled by their own parents, that is what they will see as the norm. No matter how many other couples they interact with- their primary model is the on their parents give them.

And nobody has told m what will happen if the OP has children, and they ask to do something at the weekend and He Who Must Be Obeyed, and who is is charge of weekend activities isn't there to ask. Does she say "We'll have to wait and ask daddy?"

Martorana if she's anything like me she'll say "well that sounds like fun - let me check with daddy that we don't have anything else on / that we have enough money" or whatever. Which weirdly enough is also what he says, but in reverse...

Because at work a customer or supplier might ask if we can manage a meeting, and I provisionally book before checking my boss's availability; just as my boss checks mine before committing me to anything.

It's like having a boss, not a Joffrey Baratheon!

So you lie to your children to cover up the fact that you aren't allowed to make any decisions? Then if he says no, you lie again?

Does that not bring it home to you that this is not a healthy way to be?

This thread is unintentionally hilarious.

He tells you to get a manual car instead of an automatic.

Wow, sexual...

I think the reason people are being derisive is not because they're not as 'liberal' and 'open-minded' as they like to make out ... but because you contradict yourself profoundly from one post to the next, and you don't even see it.

Children are not stupid. If one person is in charge, they figure that out. And the fact that you try and lie about that fact to your children that that si what is happening, simply isolates them.

You know what amazes me is how people fool themselves into thinking what they are doing is transgressive and alternative, when it is actually about as conformis as you can be. I see this elsewhere, not just with the OP. Very traditional patriarchial behaviour being dressed up as alternative by a few superfacial props.

I was just about to post asking why this assumption is always made on Mumsnet that people making different choices are somehow in it for the thrill of it being different and if it was mainstream they would be bored and stop it.

How about it's just something we are into that we don't feel is anything to be ashamed of?

I would actually say that one of my favourite things about events in the bdsm/fet world is the feeling of being normal. Being able to be myself, do the things that make me happy and talk about them freely with people who understand (even though, shock horror, some if us are into different things, we manage to be respectful). Bear in mind that a lot of events are basically some people having a pint in a normal pub in normal clothes - it's nothing shocking at all, just people trying to feel accepted.

Oooooh! LIFESTYLE CHOICE!

BINGO!

What do I win?

A MASSIVE butt plug Kisses

Turgiday: I'm a feminist because women are still treated as inferior by some in our society, not taken seriously in the workplace, not paid the same, seen as weak or silly or less cabable in some quarters. Many women feel they have to look a certain way or act in ways that make them uncomfortable to fit in or be seen as attractive to men.

It's outrageous, it's not over, and in some ways we're sliding backwards. This situation in Nigeria is horrific, and women across the globe face massive oppression everyday. Here in the UK, the current forore around women on the frontline, for example, is ridiculous. Women are not delicate flowers. They have proved their capabilities and should be treated equally in all respects.

To tell me that I have no right to fight for that equality, to speak up and stand for what is right, because of my deeply embedded, involuntary sexuality and loving, consensual relationship, is offensive, blinkered and deliberately obtuse.

We're going round in circles here. It's been said repeatedly on this thread that D/s often applies to gay relationships and female dominants. I happen to be a straight woman, that's all. I need this on a fundamental level, and I'm happy.

Luckily I don't need anyone to approve my feminist credentials to write blogs, join protests and engage in gender debates. Least of all narrow-minded folk in forums.

Come on, kisses- don't play the " Oh, I'm so persecuted" game.

What you do in bed or wherever is your own business. But acting out Anastasia and Christian about what car to buy and whether or not the windows are clean enough is a lifestyle choice. And one which has a profound effect on any children. I presume you have children?

Japanese: I don't contradict myself at all. It's every aspect of life, not just the bedroom. I love my automatic car. He says I have to have a manual next time, so I don't forget how to use a gear stick. So I will. It's a deliberately mundane example to highlight the day to day. Try not to get hung up on it. I don't think many posters would thank me for talking about the sex stuff.

No, because I am allowed to make decisions but in a partnership one person doesn't necessarily have all the facts.

So if the DC said to me "can we go to the cinema this weekend?" then I wouldn't necessarily know that DH had planned a day out elsewhere; if they asked him he might not know that we were already committed to a party.

Seriously, nearly all the time it makes zero difference to the children's lives. And the theoretical 0.1% (incidentally I don't remember a time ever where it's come down to our ideas being in conflict and the only tie-breaker is his dominance) wouldn't be presented as "because daddy says so" because (a) that would be pathetic parenting and (b) he isn't an arsehole.

Turgiday: I'm a feminist because women are still treated as inferior by some in our society, not taken seriously in the workplace, not paid the same, seen as weak or silly or less cabable in some quarters.

Yet you are helping to perpetuate some of this. You are acting inferior to your partner, your views and feelings are worth less, he makes all the decisions. Is he stronger, less silly and more capable than you then? If not, why do you hand over control of your life to him?

Martorana: we don't have children. So not relevant here. I do feel persecuted by you. I can't help how I am. I need this to be fulfilled in a relationship.

Being gay is not a lifestyle choice. Nor is my sexuality. How dare you trivialise my relationship by bringing functional characters from a trashy novel into it. What do you know?

Steely- what if you have a baby and he decides that you should or shouldn't breast feed?

*fictional characters. My sexuality, my loving relationship, other people's healthy and consensual BDSM relationships - these things are not a joke, or disgusting, or wrong.

He would never do that! That's not what's it about. He'd want what was best for me and the baby. And he'd want that to be my desicion anyway. Have you not listened to people saying it's not micromanagement? How many times? You are like a brick wall and I tire of banging my head against you.

Steely I am a feminist. We are also BDSM. I am D. That is slightly irrelevant as even if I was S in the bedroom I would still feel the same in everyday life.
Your way of life does not, to me, appear to comply with how a feminist would choose to live.
Funnily, I also drive an automatic, and have for years.
If my DH told/asked/requested me to drive a manual, I would say no. I love my automatic, it saves me gearing, shifting, muscle strain, etc. Those are the reasons I chose automatic in the first place. There is no good reason for asking you to change.
"Forget how to use a gear stick" is a BS excuse to force you to choose something he wants, or wants you to do. There is no logic to that request. You can borrow a stick shift every now and then to satisfy the practice element.
You are a submissive partner, which many on here, myself included, cannot countenance. In this day and age, where women have access to education, contraception, healthcare and careers why the fuck would any of us revert to the status quo of 1500?

If he is telling you to buy a geared car, then it is micromanagement.

Corus: you ARE persecuting me for my sexuality. That's exactly what you're doing. Have a long hard look at yourself.

D