To think that YES, you can have reasonable hours and a good work/life balance as a teacher

[WistfulForTravel]

I'm 22, a 3rd year Primary Education BEd student, I love my degree and every assignment and placement cements the fact that teaching is my vocation and is what I want to do as a career.

However, I've been getting a lot of negative comments from my aunties and neighbors about how I'll never have a life again, how most of my waking hours will be consumed with thoughts of work, how I'll never even have one day to truly relax during the 13 weeks off, how it'll be a 7am - 9 pm job, etc.

I know teaching is more full on than some jobs, but is it really this intense? I am friends with a few teachers and they seem to have a healthy work/life balance (time for guys/sports/hobbies, at least one full weekend day off, out 1-3 nights a week) They have no kids though. I imagine it would be very different when you have kids.

Is it possible to practice effective time management + work very hard during the week so you can have the weekend off?

As much as I've enjoyed my course and look forward to my first class in September (eek!) my philosophy is more a 'Work to Live' not 'Live to Work'

it depends - the dh mentioned above has a department with detailed lesson plans and schemes of work done for him that he just has to tweak - well yes if that was in place you'd be fine i guess but it has never been my experience that it is in place and up to scratch.

i do think you've more chance of a balance as a primary teacher where you only have 30 kids to know inside out and report on and have all the documentation up to date on their levels, predicted levels, whether they're working above or below where they should be and what interventions you have in place etc.

in a secondary that can be 600 kids plus your form group. then there's behaviour follow ups - way more to do on 600 kids (and teenagers) than there is on 30 primary school kids and when you've already had to deal with the shitty behaviour the having to spend half an hour plus after school filling out paperwork on it, trying to contact and talk to parents, justifying why you had to remove a child from the classroom and negotiate a way forward with slt etc is soul destroying. i would imagine if i went over to primary that would be a lot less time consuming given i'd know those 30kids inside out, would have relationships with their parents and be in a situation where often you can catch someone in the playground for a chat. plus how many behaviour issues are you going to see in a day?

the other thing with secondary is that constant changeover of classes - you have one nightmare lesson with a year 11 group that has managed to be the landing point for every 16yo child with anger issues and aggression and no sooner is it over than the next class is lined up outside. that stuff doesn't take extra time (other than having to follow it all up at the end of the day) but it does take it's toll and is exhausting and wears you down.

i think as a primary school teacher you're in the nice position of seeing the whole year out ahead of you with a group and being able to meaningfully plan for the different abilities, strengths and deficits of your 30 pupils. if you have a natural affinity for planning (one thing i had thankfully - everyone talks about being a natural teacher as in classroom stuff but fails to mention that the time consumption comes in the planning and if you haven't a flair for being able to see a big picture and how to translate that into a progressive scheme of work with every lesson meaning something in that progression you're going to take a long time over planning) and know how to pace yourself (and them) in terms of active high energy use lessons and quieter ones where you may get to get a few bits of your own work done then yes as a primary school teacher i think you can have a good life balance.

if you were secondary i'd say no. unless you land in a dept where they metaphorically wipe your arse for you it is impossible.

oh and as a primary school teacher i'd guess you won't have to spend every breaktime and lunchtime dealing with kids you've had to keep in so can get more work done then too.

This thread sure makes me appreciate teachers.

I've only ever worked as a teacher as a parent, and to have a decent work/life balance I have reduced my hours to 4 days a week. I can actually do things in the house. I would just come home and sleep after work, and felt like the weekends were spent resting. I do however have health issues (one of which is fatigue) so not quite the same.

But schemes of work are not difficult to write. The summer before I started teaching the HoD gave me the job of writing SofW for the whole of the KS3 syllabus. It was a lesson by lesson breakdown with topics, objectives, resources, suggested activities and homeworks. I made all the appropriate worksheets / card activities etc and that was my "planning" largely done for years, because we teach the same stuff each time, with minor tweaks for individual groups or when inspiration hits or you see a new resource or whatever. I learnt to do the same with GCSE and A level. Use the holidays to get a basic SofW in place and keep a file with resources etc (this is becoming less the case now everything is stored on PC, moodle etc) and just add to it as you go along. Our dept is very good at sharing resources, working collaboratively etc which also helps a lot. Its harder now with kids but we have a few days every holiday when they are with the CM and I go into work then and do the legwork so I can keep on top of the day to day stuff. Its hard in when reports are due, as there are LOTS to write, but again, you work smart and have a rough template where you have a sentence about progress, attitude, participation etc and they don't take long really.

Of course you can.
Chose your school wisely.
Choose your partner wisely.
Don't have a child with SN, or significant health issues.
Don't have other responsibilities such as dependent parents needing care.

I've worked in 4 schools all completely different in workloads. Choose your school wisely if you're primary! This is what I mean in terms of planning and marking:

I currently have to plan everything from scratch (no schemes, worksheets, text books allowed) and mark everything (and I don't mean tick, tick, well done! We have to give each child a comment on what they've done well, and then something for them to improve/edit at the start of the next lesson. At least 90 books a day.).

At a previous school all planning was shared because we were multi-form entry and even that was mostly schemes of work or planning from previous years. There was expectation that the books were marked 1/2 times a week.

I used to have a perfect work/life balance but not in my current school (although being super organised means I'm much better compared to many of my colleagues). A lot of it is just completely out of your control.

Rollonthesummer

Reading your post was like a walk down memory lane. All of those initiatives started, embraced and then, in the majority of cases, abandoned.

Teaching is fine until you throw in 2 children of your own with AEN, a husband who works away, 60 + hours a week plus weekends working. Then keep juggling and try not to drop the balls. Thing is, it's always the your own children ball that gets dropped.

I am searching for an escape route. I spent 5 years working outside education too so I do get the fact that other jobs are stressful but I would swap the holidays for the flexibility to take a day of leave when one of my children has to have a hospital procedure and I have to send them with someone else.

Do you not get sick leave thobbly?

The first few years ARE ridiculously heavy, and anyone who says they aren't is not doing it well. Once you get a permanent role, get to stay in the same class every year and you no longer need to write four page lesson plans for a thirty minute lesson because the head knows that you know what you are doing, then it does get easier.

I don't have any complaints about my work/life balance. I do work extremely hard, but then so do a lot of people in a lot of other careers. What I do have that I didn't have in my corporate years is more flexibility. I can leave school at 3:30pm on a nice sunny day and go to the beach with DS for a couple of hours, then come home and spend time working for a few hours with the tv on and a glass of wine in hand. I get school holidays where I can pick and choose the times I get my work done and I won't have to worry about finding as much childcare during school holidays as some other parents do.

Yes, what are these 'schemes of work' of which you speak?

Not allowed in primary...!

Or many primaries - agree that a lot of it depends on the school...

I work 7am to 5.30pm term time and 8 or 9am to 4pm holidays. I take about 20 days away from work a year. If I didn't have a specific organisational role in school,I wouldn't need to work so much in the holidays. I don't work evenings unless it's exam week to mark the papers and again I don't work weekends, I only work at school not at home, which helps immensely to keep work at work and home at home.

'Once you get a permanent role, get to stay in the same class every year and you no longer need to write four page lesson plans for a thirty minute lesson because the head knows that you know what you are doing, then it does get easier.'

Depends on the school, and the head. Planning expectations in my last school were the same for everyone, regardless of experience. Usually 2 pages for core subjects, and detailed annotation was expected, to inform the next week's planning.
She also believed in rotating staff every two or three years, and you would be placed wherever there was a need, whatever your personal preferences.

On the other hand, OP, if you didn't feel that you could do this, that the pressures are exaggerated and that older staff just don't have your get up adn go drive, you wouldn't be 22 and at the start of your career.
I truly hope you feel the same way in 10, 20 or 30 years.

defineme does your DH also do all of the taking and collecting of your kids to childcare? (&therefore limited in when he can go to work and come home). Does he cook meals for your DC and do the ferrying to and from clubs and activities? Does he do lots of the household work as well, you know like day to day making sure uniforms are clean and kit for activities ready as well as usual washing etc?
My point is lots of male staff have partners looking after the DC whilst they can concentrate on 'being efficient' at work. I love days where my DH is working from home cos I can stay later at work but the majority of the time he's away and I, like many female staff, am primary parent. I am stupidly efficient at work, as my HOD recognises. But it isn't all family friendly as your lovely situation poses.
OP as others have said choices - choose easy school, with brilliant behaviour, supportive SKY and choose partner who doesn't work away! (But it is the best job in the world other than being a mum)

Supportive SMT not SKY!

OP I'm not a teacher but I think you need to differentiate work pre and post dc.

I work in a different profession to teaching, but prior to dc I used to work at least 60 hours per week, it was expected. Post dc, allegedly I work 3 days a week but actually I probably work a fourth day in evening/weekend overtime. What I'm trying to say is that it seems a lot of professions, including teaching, require a lot of unpaid overtime. Good luck!

LePamplemousse - I too am shocked by your claims. Though not surprised. Over the years I've seen NQTs come into the profession either with a combination of naïveté and arrogance at varying degrees or an uncontrollable enthusiasm. Gradually this is worn down and they begin to see the reality of it: an amazing profession which unfortunately is a political football to be tossed around according to our leaders' whims, where you need to prove yourself all the time. There are curriculum changes every 5 years or so with each government wanting to make their mark - we are on a never ending cycle of getting to grips with the latest strategies etc. And don't get me started on the necessary triangulation of planning, assessment and target setting... proof that you are doing your job before the lesson, during the lesson and after the lesson... Followed swiftly by death by data.

I've been teaching for almost 20 years in primary schools and have loved it. I've been a subject leader, worked on the SMT and been seconded out to other schools for development projects. I know my stuff! I have never really had a work life balance and will admit on here that my practice suffered when the dcs were small. As we approach the third or fourth major overhaul of the curriculum in my career, I've had enough. I'm off. My job next year will still be connected to education but I will no longer be subject to Michael Gove and his patsies bandying their foolish notions whilst playing with children's futures. I can't wait - an experienced, 'outstanding', senior practitioner and I can't wait to get out. This is what the political point scoring is doing to the profession - I am not alone. Experienced teachers are leaving in droves. Very sad.

Honeybadger - you have an extraordinary view of primary education!

Honey Badger, as a Secondary to Primary convert, the workload in Primary is about a third heavier.

The marking load for me, as a History and Politics teacher, was far less than it is now as a Year 5 one. Even with AS and A2 to contend with. I take home 120 books a night, some nights. Everything has to be marked every night with NS written. The planning in secondary was easier: I could use my own plans, and I had a SOW I'd written myself, with nice central resource bank and cupboard. In Primary, nada, zip. You're on your own.

It was far easier dealing with one form group and myriad classes than one group all year. The pastoral side of things was much lighter. The parental involvement was far more supportive, and that was in a rough school in London!

The SEN contingent was much lower: by secondary the high needs have gone off to special schools and the EBD's have had something in place for a while, most of the time. Primary, they're all still there.

You have downtime in the Summer term. It's such a lovely thing. I miss it.

Every single second of every single lunctime is taken up with kids, with SEN meetings, with parental meetings, with clubs. And duties.

And there is not such thing as a quiet lesson in primary. Every single lesson must show progress, and they must hit that sub-level move every single half term or you will be scrutinied.

In fact, I considered going back to secondary as it was easier before making the decision to leave entirely this year. Not that it is "easy" either!

Prior to teaching I worked in a high level consultancy job, for which I got paid jolly well, plus overtime, and I still didn't work as hard as I am now.

I have worked in primary for 20 years. I have 2 dcs and work full time.

I work through lunchtime/breaks ( though often with kids to -nag- discuss things with.
I get home, fed/bath/read with my dcs, then mark till half 9 ish.

I work one half day every weekend ( lovely Dh takes the dcs out)

BUT I have days in all holidays free, I make sure my own kids get me then_ iI work in the evenings as normal to keep ontop of reports etc, but otherwise the holidays are for my family.

It is hard, but the holidays are a great thing!!

I'm a primary teacher and I think I am bloody good at my job. I work as a phase leader, managing 25 staff and over 150 children. I'm on the slt and work 4 days (2 days in class/ 2 days management time).
I work every possible second of the day and it's hard work. I leave home before 7am (10 min drive to school) and work until 12:15 with no break (work in reception so we work right until lunchtime). I do make sure I have 30 mins for lunch as this is the only time I will stop all day. I leave school by 4:45 and go pick up my son. From getting home until his bedtime, I spend quality time with him but from 8pm until 10:30 I work. To be fair, I don't work on a Friday (day off) or on a sat and I will do a couple of hours on a Sunday evening.
To be honest, it's hard work and sometimes I don't want to do it but I really do LOVE my job and wouldn't want to do anything else.
I agree with that was said earlier about holidays. Half terms I work for the majority of the hol (this is usually when I need to write reports/ analyse my data) and will work for the first week of a 2 week holiday. Summer I prob work for. Couple of weeks so this is defo chill out time for me and does feel like the only holiday when I can truely relax and forget about school.
Would I swap my job- not a chance :-)

OP doesn't state whether she is primary or secondary. The two are very different (NOT SAYING ONE IS HARDER THAN OTHER, before people start the debate, but it is very different type of work load and how you can balance it).
Interesting she hasn't been back since the thread has been started. If it is genuine I'd be interested to see what she says a couple of years down the line when fully qualified and has a full time class of her own, a rapidly changing curriculum to plan for, admin tasks coming out of her ears, one afternoon a week PPA (that gets eaten away by other crap happening in school), a school needing to improve, a few ropey lesson observations and SLT pushing for improvement as certain paperwork hoops need jumping through, no TA and a challenging class!

rollonthesummer fair enough, that was a heinous mistake! In my defence I had had a few glasses of last night.

I just want to point out I wasn't trying to offend anyone or assert that I've 'cracked' it in any way, shape or form - I'm absolutely certain that my workload will skyrocket once I'm at my new school as an NQT. And I also am beginning to think I may have been blessed with two easy schools for my placements. I'm really hoping my new school isn't one where I have to submit lesson plans for each lesson as it just seems so excessive.

NeedaDiscoNap, no idea why you are flabbergasted. I think if I start working ridiculous hours NOW when I'm a trainee, it will never end - I think you have to set strict limits for yourself and I'm sure when I am an NQT and/or pick up additional responsibilities it'll get harder. Just to clarify when I said I do a bit of 'last minute planning' on Sunday afternoons, I have already got the SOWs and lesson plans in place from the couple of days work I did during the holidays - the last minute planning is just putting resources together and printing etc. I don't plan my week's lessons 'last minute' in one go.

By the way I received mostly Outstanding and a couple of Goods on everything for my final practice gradings, so I don't think allowing myself Fridays and Saturdays off is doing me a great deal of harm. My mental health and physical health are good, as well, compared to some of my friends who are in a constant state of stress and/or illness. So, in short, this is working for me.

Im secondary. The teaching and planning is manageable. The constant redesigning of curriculum, new school marking policies, mock ofsted, and numerous other stuff school invents are not!