To think that YES, you can have reasonable hours and a good work/life balance as a teacher

[WistfulForTravel]

I'm 22, a 3rd year Primary Education BEd student, I love my degree and every assignment and placement cements the fact that teaching is my vocation and is what I want to do as a career.

However, I've been getting a lot of negative comments from my aunties and neighbors about how I'll never have a life again, how most of my waking hours will be consumed with thoughts of work, how I'll never even have one day to truly relax during the 13 weeks off, how it'll be a 7am - 9 pm job, etc.

I know teaching is more full on than some jobs, but is it really this intense? I am friends with a few teachers and they seem to have a healthy work/life balance (time for guys/sports/hobbies, at least one full weekend day off, out 1-3 nights a week) They have no kids though. I imagine it would be very different when you have kids.

Is it possible to practice effective time management + work very hard during the week so you can have the weekend off?

As much as I've enjoyed my course and look forward to my first class in September (eek!) my philosophy is more a 'Work to Live' not 'Live to Work'

I am a HOD and teach 25/30 lessons. I have 4 GCSE classes, 2 A-Level and assorted KS3. As I teach History I can reckon on having 30 or so A-Level essays a week to mark, and at least 120 GCSE exam questions per week. I also try to mark KS3 exercise books once per fortnight and of course they do an assessment each half-term too. I also have to read around the topics my A2 students have picked for their personal studies so that I know which books to point them towards etc. Planning lessons doesn't take me too long as I've been doing this for 10 years now.

I am at school 7.30-5.30 usually and then I work at home for about 3 hours unless it is a really busy week. I try not to work on Saturday but often do. Sunday is Church in the morning then work until about 8pm.

I don't mind the work, I enjoy it and I'm good at my job. What I do find hard is the fact that I never feel like I've done enough. At the moment if I'm not making revision stuff for Year 11 I'm trying to think of what I can make for them. This is what makes me want to leave - the constant expectation that you can and will do more every year. At some point I'm going to have a breakdown and I'd like to leave before this happens.

Yes, you can. I was a teacher in my previous career and always went home on time, didn't have much to do in the evening and my students got top results. I was blessed with good students, I'd say. I taught A level chemistry, maths and physics.
We had scheduled spares, in which I did planning and marking and I spent a day or so at the beginning of each term doing lesson plans so everything went according to those. (with a bit of winging it of course - the journey of the lesson could go anywhere lol).
My classes weren't large - max was maybe 30?
I do more in my newer career.

It was hard work before children but I loved it. After I had my children I was always running to catch up and I felt I was doing neither job properly. You have never ever finished, there is always something to be done. I gave it up after 15 years.

They're trying to help you. I did my ba primary, finished in 2011, went in to nursery teaching and feel I had a lucky escape. For the first couple of years, no, you don't have a work life balance. IMO if you live to work, then I'd get out while you can!

I am on PGCE Secondary English and after lots of discussions with my friends about working hours, have determined that I probably work the least out of all of us. I work Sunday afternoons, get to work at 8, and very rarely work beyond 4.30pm.

I do it by not pushing myself to a ridiculous extent - I push myself to be a good teacher, but I'm not a perfectionist, and sometimes I'll go into a lesson with only quite minimal planning. Good behaviour management is essential because then you can actually get to the stage where you are able to do a bit of marking in lessons - same goes for student-centred lessons where they don't need constant input from me. Although I'm not a perfectionist, I do believe as an English teacher my marking should be detailed and thorough so I do mark constantly. I spend about two to three days each holiday lesson planning my SOWs for the next term. I refuse to work on Friday nights or Saturdays - just a bit of last minute planning on Sunday afternoon. I believe in the theory that the work expands to fill the time you allow for it.

Sorry if I'm teaching my granny how to suck eggs! Just trying to put into words what has worked for me.

Oh and, I have excellent subject knowledge. This really helps. Some of my friends who are English PGCE-ers and who don't have English Literature degrees do seem to really struggle when it comes to planning a lesson quickly - they need more time to assimilate information etc. If your enthusiastic and knowledgeable about your subject that goes a long way.

No.
I have taught both secondary and primary. Primary is harder in terms of marking load. The teachers here saying they can plan quickly are lucky. I CAN plan quickly, but my school demands a certain style of plan to a certain level, with all the levels addressed. We then have to hand the plans in for scrutiny. Takes effing ages. And don't even get me started on the marking policy, which takes a potentially useful tool and throttles it with guidelines and different coloured pens.

I get in at 7 and leave at 4:30. I then see my own kids and mark a set of books and do anything else that needs doing. Usually a couple of hours. That's on evenings where we don't have inset or team meetings.

I'm leaving and going to supply while I figure out what to do.

Oh, and by the way, like you I do expect that I'll experience a big jump up in working hours when I start NQT. But I'm determined to force myself to still have a life!

phlebas, you have to hand in ALL your plans for scrutiny? Surely that's not allowed? I'd want to have a word with my union about that if I were you but as I say, I'm not even qualified yet so what do I know.

Just thought of something else I do - mark during the lesson, so if a child asks me to check their work or give feedback I'll mark it while I'm verbally telling them as well. Saves me quite a bit of time.

Yes, just found this on NUT website

www.teachers.org.uk/files/Workload-A5-7037.pdf

"Plans should be kept to a minimum length. They can be set
out in the form of bullet points or notes, including how
learning objectives will be achieved. This is entirely a matter of
professional judgement."

and
"Plans are working documents and it is the content rather than
the presentation which is important. Separate weekly and
daily lesson plans are not necessary. Annotations or post-it
notes can be used to convert medium-term plans into lesson
plans."

Outrageous that your school expects experienced teachers to all plan in the same particular format. Talk about 'teaching by numbers'.

I think that you either have to be super-committed and go in with the expectation that you will teach for a maximum of about 6 - 7 years OR be very good at prioritising and happy to take a 'that will do' approach.

If you are young, keen, fit, healthy and single then it is fantastic. If you are tired, old, ill or unhappy it is merciless.

I taught for about 10 years, the last few in management roles. I averaged about 60hours a week in term time and never, ever felt that my work was up to date!

Having one day at the weekend free is fine, until you realise that your better-paid friends have both days free. You work on Sunday, but feel that pile of work looming all day Saturday...By eight years in I had a lot of stamina in terms of handling a large workload, but I was aware that all my creativity seemed to have completely dried up. It was taking me longer and longer to plan, the ideas seemed harder to generate and I was close to mental burnout. The long and the short of it is that I didn't go back after maternity leave, now have a new pt job outside teaching and absolutely love it...I have evenings, I have weekends and I have breaks!

Oh and the expectations are very different between primary and secondary, so it would be almost impossible to get an English teacher, a Humanities teacher, a Year 6 teacher and a Year 1 teacher to agree on what is a realistic expectation of workload.

If your enthusiastic and knowledgeable about your subject that goes a long way.

Nooo...and from a trainee English teacher, too

I teach primary and have done for 15 years. My PGCE wasn't particularly bad-though observations could be stressful-but I didn't have that pressure of my own class. The NQT year was hard but the year after was probably worse because you lose your NQT time and it's all just down to you. The next few years were ok; certain times of year were harder than others and I was always shattered by the holidays, but I coped. Then I went part time as I had children; that was great, though SMT still expect plenty from you!

Things have changed quite dramatically though in the last two years. The expectations regarding target setting, assessment, marking and planning are ridiculous and most of the work I seem to do is one long papertrail that benefits nobody but wastes hours and hours of my time. Things have been hastily implemented (badly), never properly embedded and then sometimes just abandoned; p4c, Big Writing/Pie Corbett, Brain Gym, Talk for Maths, Learning Objectives, Success Criteria, 3-part lessonsm 5-part lessons, mini-plenaries, APP, R time, Mantle of the Expert, Seal, MFL, thinking Hats, AFL, Talk Partners, wave 2/3 interventions, ELS, ALS, Springboard, Eric, VAK, VCOP to name a few. Hardly any of these things existed in my first year of teaching primary-and hey, the kids still learnt stuff!

Performance management has become a tool for unscrupulous heads to hound teachers they don't like/who don't pay ball/whose face doesn't fit or who are too pricey out. I've luckily always had good/outstanding obs but in my area, if you get anything other than a 'Good', then the SMT en masse come back to see you within a week-no support, just clipboards. This is repeated until you either improve or you find yourself on capability. I've seen good teachers crushed and got rid of because a new head came along and they just didn't like them.

I love teaching, but I can only survive at the moment because I'm part time. The full timers are either 55+, on their knees and thankful to be nearing pension age or early 20s and either full of enthusiasm (but with no life!) or teetering on the edge of capability. I do not want to live like this for the next 30 years. Most of us feel like we're treading water at best.

OP, I would be interested in hearing what you think of your work/life balance in a year or two.

Secondary Maths teacher; this weekend I have brought home a set of year 10 books with a week's worth of work, a set of A level prac papers and the remains of 4x IGCSE papers (100 in all) which year 11 did over the Easter break. I would have marked these in the week but had full reports to write for year 10 - about 6 hours work - which I did on my non teaching afternoons.(I work part time).

My husband is a grammar school teacher - he is in work for 7.15 most days but does leave by 4.30 most evenings. He spends 2/3 hours most evening working and usually a half day at the weekend along with a few days during half terms/holidays getting bits done. He would say that he could do more work but chooses not to at this stage as he has realised there is no real end to it.

I don't think primary and secondary are that different in overall expectations or work/life balance. Even though I am part time secondary I am often in school 2 hours before I start teaching, getting stuff ready. I work on all my afternoons off and most of Sunday. Next week I will stay after school most evenings to run revision classes for year 11. I never feel that I have finished ... and don't get me started on the marking policies and different coloured pens and stampy things!

LeP- if you're on a PGCE and you're doing "minimal planning" and marking in lessons, then I don't really think you're likely to be doing a terribly good job.

Yes, it's perfectly possible to have a work/life balance but you also have to accept that there will be times without one. Last Friday was the deadline for GCSE coursework marks for my board/subject. That took up every free period and every evening. Next week I have practical exams on Tuesday, Thursday & Friday so I won't be getting any frees. That means the stuff I would normally be doing in that PPA time will need to be done after school, including a full year group's worth of reports.

It's swings and roundabouts IME.

I am flabbergasted by your post LeP - didn't say earlier but I am a HoD for English, and if this is your attitude now...

This is not me saying I agree with long hours for teachers, I don't, I'm just being honest about the day to day realities of the job.

If you are a new entrant to the profession then the reality of the situation is you have to be prepared to work long hours. As you gain in experience, your work-life balance can improve, but it's still hard going at times...

Dh is a secondary HOD of a large faculty. The results are great and Ofsted good with outstanding features. Dh has never had less than a good with outstanding features lesson observation. He's liked and respected by staff and kids.
He has no idea what all the people doing these hours are doing. Last week he did do an hour or two each night because he had a lot of mocks to mark, but that's really rare. Usually it's an hour every other night and never impinges on our family weekend. He is at work 8.30-4.30 (school day is 8.45- 3.15) and does what needs to be done within that time. Our holidays are our holidays-he'll do no more than half a day per week.

I think in his favour is that he has excellent subject knowledge and so preparation takes him far less time because he already knows the background/context etc of what he's teaching. He doesn't drink tea and he works through lunch/break times/ppa time. He's a natural teacher and I think he takes classes through a lot of lessons on the strength of his personality and ability to convey his enthusiasm and knowledge rather than elaborate lesson plans. The faculty have comprehensive planning for all modules and so there just needs to be minor tweaking for individual classes.

He's a born teacher and we have a lovely family life because of it.

There are two young teachers in his department who are very similar. They struggled like everyone does in their first couple of years, but now their behaviour management is great and they're teaching some of the same things they're fine.

Good luck op!

Define me...

You say that your DH doesn't know what takes teachers so long, but then in the same post admit that he doesn't write schemes of work, or do detailed lesson plans, and often teaches off the cuff. I think I can see the connection there!!

I teach A levels only (at a college, so no KS3 or GCSE teaching), and I only teach minority subjects, so I have no-one to share my planning load with. I have to write all my own SoW and lesson plans, and being A level, there's no off the cuff lessons for me!

In September, I'm teaching a new subject, and one of my old ones have decided to completely change their syllabus from September, so I'll be preparing new resources, schemes of work and lesson plans for two different A levels from scratch. I will have to submit my SoW to my managers as well, so it will need doing properly. Of course, it's easy to manage the working day if you don't have to do this, but not everyone has that luxury! With syllabi changing every few years, after 16 years of teaching, I find I just get something how I want it, and the bloody exam board goes and changes it again!! So you're never off the ever ending cycle of preparing lessons.

well OP I am not a teacher but my mother is & a few of my friends are and I'm going to go against the grain here and say most teachers I know have afar better work/life balance than anyone I know in the corporate world. [dons flame protective suit]

My mum doesn't work full time now but did when we were growing up. She is a primary teacher. One of my friends is a high school history teacher.

They tend to get to work about 8am and leave about 4.30. A 6pm finish is a late night. There are lunch-time duties but not every day. There is a bit of work in the evenings and on weekends, and extra-hours work at certain times of year, e.g. lead-up to Christmas pageant. They get 12 weeks' holiday and the certainly do not work straight through, from what I've seen at worst they might work 20% of the hols. Summer holidays are a complete break. There are generous sick leave provisions.

I work in a corporate environment. I start at 8.30 and finish at 5.30 on a good day, more usually 6pm. 10pm or later is a late night. I get 4 weeks' holiday and 5 days sick leave a year. Due to the nature of my work I need to attend functions after hours once or twice a month.

I know that teaching can be hard and I do respect the job that teachers do (generally- like any profession I've come across some that are sh*t) but to be honest I don't think teachers appreciate how good they have it in comparison to many other jobs.

Outrageous that your school expects experienced teachers to all plan in the same particular format. Talk about 'teaching by numbers'

LePamplemousse - it may be outrageous, but it's very very common.

When I started teaching in the 80s, then more experienced teachers could 'wing' lessons when they needed to, but nowadays you need a lesson plan for each lesson, differentiated into 5 different levels of work, and that barely scratches the surface of all the paperwork you have to waste time producing.

I got a reasonable work/life balance once I went down to only being paid for 3 days a week. I suspect that's the only way you will get weekends free.

I am not a teacher I get up at 5am on Saturday and Sunday so I can do five hours' work by ten and then have the rest of the day free as I choose. I find this works for me as I can have the weekends I like, playing sport, seeing friends, going out to bars etc without feeling like my free time is dominated by work. This would be my biggest tip for work/life balance. I never feel the tiredness other teachers complain of, I think because I really feel I get to enjoy myself too.

Sorry, I AM a teacher!

I don't know any primary school teachers who manage it!