To think that YES, you can have reasonable hours and a good work/life balance as a teacher

[WistfulForTravel]

I'm 22, a 3rd year Primary Education BEd student, I love my degree and every assignment and placement cements the fact that teaching is my vocation and is what I want to do as a career.

However, I've been getting a lot of negative comments from my aunties and neighbors about how I'll never have a life again, how most of my waking hours will be consumed with thoughts of work, how I'll never even have one day to truly relax during the 13 weeks off, how it'll be a 7am - 9 pm job, etc.

I know teaching is more full on than some jobs, but is it really this intense? I am friends with a few teachers and they seem to have a healthy work/life balance (time for guys/sports/hobbies, at least one full weekend day off, out 1-3 nights a week) They have no kids though. I imagine it would be very different when you have kids.

Is it possible to practice effective time management + work very hard during the week so you can have the weekend off?

As much as I've enjoyed my course and look forward to my first class in September (eek!) my philosophy is more a 'Work to Live' not 'Live to Work'

I think it is also worth mentioning that although teaching may be an intensive job (and there's no doubt it is far more intensive than when my parents were teaching 20 years ago, coming home at 4 and putting their feet up) this increased administration and bureaucratization has spread to all professions. Being a nurse, doctor, social worker, lawyer, lecturer and so on- the need to plan everything, document everything, do more hours for the same pay than in the past, is quite typical. This has to be weighed up when making career choices- it may not be that nice working longer hours and weekends, but it is likely to be the case in most professions you choose now, so my best tip is pick one where you intrinsically enjoy the work as you will be doing a lot of it.

And, all these professions get burn out for the same reason, my cohort is only early 40's and we are already wondering if we can sustain another 20 odd years of this madness.

All our lessons have to be planned to a meticulous degree ( but that doesn't mean I couldn't teach an outstanding lesson without the planning, just that it's not allowed!!) We have to include learning objectives, success criteria, teachers input, differentiated activities, assessment strategy, teaching assistant support, IEP targets addressed ( I have 3 statemented and 9 SEN children in my class, all with individual targets to be addressed) target children ( FSM< Ever6

spanieleyes I know that's the norm in state primaries but do you really think it's necessary or even all that advantageous to the children you teach? (I'm not been sarcastic, I know you have to do it, I'm genuinely interested as to whether you think it's worth it).

My books get marked once a week. I have zero pages of weekly planning (my medium plan is done by individual lesson but I fit about 8 lessons on one page on typed A4). I give a brief comment, a mark and one target for each piece of work. I don't assess my plans or individual lessons, just main pieces of work, tests and exams.

I doubt that the children you teach are achieving any differently to the children I teach (obviously can't prove this but assuming we are both decent teachers in decent schools that is likely to be the reality). And yet you are being worked into the ground and I am not. It seems ridiculous.

Everything Evil Twins said.

It is why I like supply too, you can prance in and teach a fantastic lesson based on excellent subject knowledge that engages and informs. Without planning or assessment or anything other than marking and feedback to a group you don't know.
Then you skip home at the end of the day. Sorted.

LeP - I spat my tea out when reading your posts! As others have said, you are on light timetable with no/limited responsibility for exam classes. If I had a student who only spent 20 minutes planning I would be concerned that they have differentiated fully, ensured that there were extension activities etc.

But my biggest concern on your first post was regrading 'marking during the lesson' - yes, AFL has to take place in every lesson, but this is not marking. If you are truly marking in a lesson, how are you helping students? How are you extending their learning? How are you AFL during the lesson if you have your head in a book?

In terms of the op; yes the first few years are hell! Whilst there are SoW, lesson plans and resources freely available/pre-written these need to be changed for each class you teach. Then there is the constant changes that have to be made, re PLTS etc. Then there is the change to the specifications which means re-writing everything again!

Marking, report writing, planning, completing the data for every student on their progress constantly, communicating to parents etc etc do take their time. After 11 years, I still have periods of time when all I think about/do is work. For instance this bank holiday weekend I have had to write a revision guide for my years 11 (due to new spec the old one was not suitable), mark coursework, complete exam board paperwork for the sample to go (for 2 subjects) and on top of that some bright spark in SLT decided that despite this being the busiest period for KS4/5 that a year group's reports are due this week (haven't even thought about that!) But, when year 11 leave, I do gain time and therefore most work will be done in this time.

My normal day (April/May not included in this!), I get to school at 7.15 (I prefer to work earlier as there is no queue for printers/photocopiers!), set up for the day, check through emails etc. I teach 26/30 lessons a week (heavy KS4/5 load). We have meetings one night a week, I usually teach an after school lesson at least once a week. But, if I have nothing on I do go home about 3.30. When home, I cook and do a quick clean, talk to DH/DS and then I will work between 8-10.

Without my DH's understanding, I would not have been able to continue this long given that there are times when I don't really spend any time with him/DS

manic, that's along the lines of what I used to do in the early 80s to prepare.
Mind you, back in the day, you really had to know your stuff as there were no handy resources other than books.

Of course not, actually all this just detracts from what the children need, which is a teacher who isnt overloaded with paperwork!!

spaniel and others who say Primary teachers don't have a scheme of work they have to write medium and short term planning...that's what I mean by a scheme of work
I'm a secondary teacher and we write our own - with a (fairy detailed, including written tasks to be set) overview then individual lessons planned from that to 'fit' the particular class. What do you think we are talking about? I also recognise that primary teachers have to mark all subjects and all lessons for their class, but both secondary and primary pupils work all lessons and all those lessons need to be marked - I'm not sure why there would be a difference. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't want to be primary teacher. I just think we all work hard in different ways and shouldn't do competitive misery like this!
OP actually working in a school as an NQT is completely different form PGCE. Working after NQT is completely different again. What until you have done it before you comment. Asking is OK, and I think you have your answer...

Hands up who wants LeP to return in five years time and give an honest report?

Goblin!

cardibach, I am sure that secondary teachers work just as hard as primary, and am pretty sure that we all do far too much paperwork-we just have different terms for it!!

spanieleyes That's such a shame. More and more good teachers will be driven out of state education or teaching altogether because of this and all for no apparent benefit.

Because I don't have to spend today intensively planning a week's lessons that I know how to teach already I am about to go into school, paint a theatre set and make some props for a small year group play which, if I did have to do all that paperwork, would just have to be put on with a plain stage and a lot of miming. I wonder what's going to be more exciting and inspiring to children ... Stupid Gove!

manic - I do the planning AND the set painting. I just don't do any housework Oh, and my DTDs would be set painting with me.

Actually I'm in the same position as cricket this weekend - sorting stuff for yr 11 and paperwork for cw sample. And writing yr 8 reports.

its my year 8 reports that are also due! It must be a SLT conspiracy

Yes Evil I got a job back in January at the best performing state school in the county, results-wise. They don't hand hold or expect lesson plans submitted weekly, thank goodness. I also dislike the term natural teachers but there IS a clear difference between students in my cohort who have taken to teaching like ducks to water and others who do, unfortunately, struggle. I don't think it's outrageous to suggest those people may have to work harder to reach the same standard.

I absolutely accept my outstanding lessons NOW may only be satisfactory when I'm fully qualified and obviously there will be a learning curve. However I was recently observed by SLT at school under OFSTED-type criteria and got good feedback.

I certainly have written full SOWs and had the same classes since January. I've planned and delivered all my own assessments etc. The thing I think will be a big shock is that I haven't written my own reports, but I don't think that will be insurmountable.

cricketballs, I think 20 minutes planning, done efficiently, is more than ample if I've thought through my SOW/lessons beforehand. I've always got what I'm going to teach next in a SOW written in the holidays and 'in my head' so all that remains is 20 minutes to differentiate resources etc. I am flabbergasted that any PGCE student spends MORE than 20 minutes planning each lesson when they teach 16 lessons a week, when they also have marking to

And your post reads like the work of someone who swallows government directives to the extent they think they need to be actively assessing learning all lesson every lesson. My Year 8s often write for thirty minutes during a lesson if they are writing a story for instance - they enjoy it. During that thirty minutes I can get lots of marking done if I've differentiated the learning clearly beforehand so they are able to work independently. I really don't think that's so shocking.

Don't worry, primary reports are due too!!
Let's spread the misery around a bit

Sorry that was supposed to be : "when they also have marking to do, evaluations to write, university assignments to do, etc etc".

Oh and I wouldn't set a thirty minute writing task for an Ofsted lesson as it doesn't require constant assessment of learning etc. But if the kids love it, and will later receive high quality marking and feedback, what's the harm?

And your post reads like the work of someone who swallows government directives to the extent they think they need to be actively assessing learning all lesson every lesson.....

If a teacher in my department was NOT doing AFL in every lesson they would certainly be heading towards capability. It is an essential part of EVERY lesson so you are aware of what each students has learnt, and what they need to do to progress.

In terms of SoW; they are there for a plan, not to dictate fully your teaching - this is why AFL is so important. If you have assessed for learning then SoW will change constantly and therefore your lesson planning

You saw year 8 are writing for 30 minutes. During that time are you checking? Have the understood what you wanted them to do, how do you extend their progress during this time? How are you sure that all students are making progress? Working independently is one thing; ignoring them is another

16 lessons a week (chortle)!!!! Oh my goodness, you're right - how could they possibly find more than 20 minutes to plan when they have to deliver 16 lessons a week!!!!

Seriously, you will fall flat on your arse if you don't get over yourself very soon.

BTW, "satisfactory" is now "requires improvement"

A cautionary tale... I did my PGCE in 1997. I did very well. I then got a job in the top comp in the county, where the pressure came from parents just as much as from the school - eg "hello Miss ET, I'm calling because Sarah got an A for the essay you marked." "Yes, that's right... She did very well" "You misunderstand, Miss ET, she should have got an A*". In the end, the kids did very well. My lessons were consistently good, I sailed through my first proper OFSTED etc etc. Then I relocated to London, thinking I was pretty darn good at this teaching lark. First day of new job - realised I couldn't teach for toffee. Not in that school anyway.

Being a good teacher is not something you can achieve on PGCE and then just claim to have cracked. It is an ongoing thing and GOOD teachers never stop learning.

"If a teacher in my department was NOT doing AFL in every lesson they would certainly be heading towards capability. It is an essential part of EVERY lesson so you are aware of what each students has learnt, and what they need to do to progress."

Obviously I assess learning in each lesson, there will always be effective plenaries etc, but I refuse to accept that we need to have constant mini-plenaries and 'checkpoints' as to my mind it's just the latest in a long line of hoops for teachers to jump through.

Yes, I'll check work during the lesson, but not constantly. It creates a lovely calm atmosphere sometimes for us ALL to be writing at the same time, myself included, rather than having me hovering over their shoulders all the time or interrupting learning with constant mini-plenaries.

There is more to ongoing assessment than mini-plenaries.

"16 lessons a week (chortle)!!!! Oh my goodness, you're right - how could they possibly find more than 20 minutes to plan when they have to deliver 16 lessons a week!!!!"

You sound extremely confrontational. Yes, actually, 16-17 lessons a week is quite a lot when you also factor in the multiple assignments, projects, evaluations, etc required on the PGCE. As I'm sure you remember, it's not a walk in the park. But I also don't think it's quite as hard as it's made out to be.

I've never received satisfactory, I'm just prepared that I could easily be surprised and receive negative feedback on my NQT. As I've repeatedly said, it'll be a learning curve.

Being a good teacher is not something you can achieve on PGCE and then just claim to have cracked. It is an ongoing thing and GOOD teachers never stop learning.

Oh thanks, I've never heard that one before... I've never claimed to have cracked it! And I wouldn't, in a million years. Of course I'll never stop learning but I also don't feel the need to work myself into the ground.

"There is more to ongoing assessment than mini-plenaries"
Yeah, again, thanks Evil. Quite aware of that.