To wonder if I'm destined to be a socially inept loser forever?

[MaggieDoesntGoHereAnymore]

This is embarrassing but I have no friends. I've never really had friends to be honest - in Year Four at primary school I became 'friends' with a girl in my class and that was okay for about a year or so until she went off with another girl, leaving me out. I say we were 'friends' because I found out recently that she didn't actually want to play with me but her mum and the teachers made her so I wouldn't be alone. It was pretty much the same in secondary school and college - no friends and I was always alone.

I always make an effort to be nice to people and I would never intentionally be mean or hurt someone but I am socially awkward. I don't really 'get' people if that makes sense - I find them confusing. I always want to fit in but I don't always know how to engage with people or know when it's my turn to speak. I always end up making a fool of myself by saying something embarrassing or inappropriate but not realising it. Sometimes I genuinely do not know when it's my turn to speak or what to say so I just stay quiet.

My social awkwardness has meant I was bullied at school and college and even at work. Some of it was really nasty and aggressive but I won't go into that. I've even had people tell me that I'm a 'weirdo' and a 'creep' which upsets me because I try so hard to fit in and make friends but end up failing .

I'm now 23 and I honestly cannot see things improving. Like I said I've never really had a friend so when I hear people talk about how they are such good friends with x, how they can tell them anything and talk to them about anything and just seeing them have a good time together makes me upset because I've never had a bond like that and I desperately want one. Except I don't know how.

I've spent ages trying to figure out what it is with me and why I'm the way I am - I'm an only child but I know lots of other only children who aren't socially awkward and are outgoing, popular and have plenty of friends so I don't think that's it. I can't figure out what else it could be though.

Is there any hope or am I destined to be a friendless loser forever?

I could have written your post Maggie, aside from the fact that I am 27 not 23! I an socially awkward and find situations far too stressful. I used to be agoraphobic, (which no one understood at the tine, everyone just thought I was weird and attention seeking, though my family were great) and now suffer from generalised anxiety disorder. I often wonder if I may be on the autistic spectrum, but have no idea how to get this diagnosed, or if there is even any point at my age.

I too have no friends. since I have had my son (16months ago), I have made a few friends, but I am well aware that I am not their first port of call and am considered more of an acquaintance rather than a true friend. I find it physically painful when people talk about 'going out with the girls,' as I have no 'girls' and never have, even though I'd love a group to be part of. I often go for weeks without getting a phone call or text from anyone other than my mum or husband.

Sorry, none of this is helpful to you, but you're not alone! I thought that knowing that may help? If you want to PM me then I'd love to chat to you Where abouts in the country are you if you don't mind saying? I'm around Oxford.

I find it physically painful when people talk about 'going out with the girls,' as I have no 'girls' and never have, even though I'd love a group to be part of.

Same here

I would love to have a best girl friend but I never have done and I'm so jealous of everyone who has one/had one before.

I have acquaintances from college and work however we're not friends in that they never invite me anywhere and when I try to invite them they're always "busy". This week for instance I haven't received a single phone call or text that wasn't from my mum or dad or work wanting to give me extra shifts. In fact I can't remember when I got a call or text from someone who wasn't one of these people.

Maggie the spectrum is very wide....that's why it's a spectrum. People with Aspergers or Autism can be extremely creative...in fact it's one of the upsides.

Those with severe Autism can sometimes lack imagination but females particularly often display a gift for literature....and language.

I don't need routine or have meltdowns....though I am very sound sensitive. I can't bear high pitched noises. I am also very imaginative and gifted with literature.

As far as wanting to be normal...nobody is normal. Everyone is themselves...some people are better at fitting in, that's all. There IS no normal.

Would being female make a difference though?

Yes. Females present very differently to males on the spectrum. It's well documented. Females with ASD are often far better at learning enough social cues to "get by" without attracting too much attention for being "odd" but they are often lonely and often find making friends hard....

Get a copy of this book and read it.

Actually I've just googled females on the spectrum and the descriptions sound a lot like me .

Still looking at it now...I need to do more research.

please don't think of a diagnosis as a bad thing. Anything that can help you identify and respond to your situation is surely a good thing? There are strategies out there that can help as other posters have said. You are now beyond the worst of the teenage years of bullying and friendship negotiations that can make school (esp. for girls) such a minefield but it sounds like there are some dicks at your current place of work also. Is there anyway of formally dealing with this or is it easier to just move on?

That's not face Maggie. Lots of great people, with lots of friends, are on the spectrum. Some of my friends are. Some of them are 'weird' too but I like them that way! It's all just information.

It's a cliche, but half of it is actually accepting and liking who you are, then you don't give a bollocks what anyone else thinks because you know you're a great person.

That's not being over cocky, it's just trying to come to terms with the fact that some people will like you and some won't, and that's the bit that's normal.

It's OK for someone not to gel with you, you have to shrug and move on.

If you think about what some friends put up with just in the threads on here, you can't believe how badly they can behave, and you're not like that, you're a nice person with lots to offer

Perhaps while you're googling, you can google cues for your turn to speak and non verbal communication.

Out of interest, how are you on the phone? A lot of people struggle on the phone as there are little to no social cues. From what you say, I'd imagine you are the same on the phone as in real life?

I find it hard to make new friends. I assume people are only pretending to like me, always have. I see peoples expressions and realise I've said the wrong thing quite a lot. It's not great.

If it's long gaps in a conversation when they are waiting, I can see they'd think it was a tad strange maybe but more frustrating if have thought. To actually tell someone they are weird and creepy? Disgusting!

I'm also an only child. Will do anything I can to ensure DD doesn't have to be. On paper I'm a normal person. I don't think most people know...

Hey Maggie, I'm in my 40's. I had precisely 0 friends in school. I have plenty now. It's just starting out is hard, I had many failed attempts before something clicked.
Early 20s, it was mostly guy friends tho, they are less 'picky ' about social niceties. It becomes a lot easier once you start working and can speak about specifics instead of general chit chat. Looking back I think my first female friends are also aspie...
Oh and as you get older, people appreciate "different" more.

I was thrilled recently to read about aspergers presenting differently in females! cos I was able to look back and see how well I had done instead of just thinking I was crap at (girl type)social stuff. I blurt out things I shouldn't, but I dress a bit eccentric and smile a lot so I kinda get away with saying weird stuff.
NT girls pick this social stuff up fast, ASpie girls pick it up slow, but, we can do it if we're keen, it's just more conscious.
Just saying, keep an open mind, even if your not aspie, they know a lot about social difficulties and it could be a good thing to help you learn more about yourself, it's not like you've changed as a person.
My daughter however is just starting to struggle and we're going to get her some help (social skills classes - who knew such a thing existed!!) as I know I was VERY lucky to get through school with out being bullied (good at hiding in plain sight) and I can see some ratbag 5 year olds are already targeting her cos she's different.
There's a thread over on special needs chat for women who think they might be asd, Have a look. Lots of people where you are right now.

It does sound very much like female aspergers to me.

Unfortunately there isn't much support for adults but finding out more might be useful for self help.

aspergersgirls.wordpress.com/2012/02/10/aspergers-traits-women-females-girls/

I found that to be a helpful article. :)

^Usually it's when I'm with people and I can't think of anything to say and just stay quiet. I've been called "weird" for that as apparently it's creepy to not say anything. But like I said I generally cannot tell when it's my turn to speak or what is appropriate to say so find it best not to speak.

I can also go off in a daydream and apparently get a 'far away' look during this time which people find odd.^

That's what they find weird? Maybe you're just surrounded by assholes.

I do the same thing. I'm either quiet and spacey. Or I'm just off the wall and blurting out what ever pops into my inappropriate little brain. But I also know when I'm making people squirm and can back off. I think the key is to just remain friendly, and it'll smooth over most wrinkles (And if it doesn't, you don't want high strung people as friends anyway).

I've found like friends that are just as weird and quirky as I am. Uni is a great place to make weird friends. Everyone is weird in college, you'll more likely than not fit right in. :)

Also, I have a friend who is on the spectrum, and she's pretty awesome. I can't use sarcasm around her because she takes it literally, but otherwise we get along great. If you don't want to be labeled, that's fine, but reading some ASD self help books might help you with social queues (heck, they would probably help a lot of socially awkward people not on the spectrum).

I am glad that you are having really good answers on this thread.

I would agree with finding out more, and accepting things if necessary.

3 general books that might help

How to win friends and influence people
The quick and easy way to effective speaking
Messages - the communication skills book

I wonder whether it's worth trying to plan some safe questions to have up your sleeve in order to be able to chat to people and fill some gaps. Hairdressers are often especially good at this, not just asking about holidays. I think it's important though that you follow up their answers with either another question or a comment of your own. Not getting any relevant response is probably unnerving.

In my experience, freshers week was all - where are you living? What course are you on? What a levels did you do? What did you do in your gap year?
There are loads of clubs and societies at university so there's scope to meet people with whom you share a common interest.

Maggie, I really feel for you. I also went through school and college and much of my 20s (I'm almost 50 now) without friends. After a while I think it got to be self-perpetuating - I didn't have friends so I didn't do social chit-chat or more intense 'friend talk', and because I never had any practice at doing social chit-chat and friend talk, I got worse and worse at it. Two things made a big difference for me. First, I read in a magazine the advice that someone gave up-thread. Most people's favourite topic of conversation is themselves, so if you're stuck for something to say, ask them something about what's going on in their lives. I still over-rely on this if I'm honest, and sometimes I get a surprised reaction when I've been just a bit too nosy through not quite getting the boundaries, but mostly it works well for me. The second thing was joining walking groups. Walking is great for making friends because you can kind of slip into and out of conversations and have long silences or periods on your own and it doesn't matter. The fact that you're walking removes some of the intensity of eye contact (which you may well be getting wrong, like I often do) and the 'cue' rules don't work in quite the same way. I'm quite clumsy so have to be helped over any rocky bits, and that's a good conversation-starter too!

When I was at school and college no-one had heard of Aspergers. I think I would almost certainly be diagnosed now given what I was like at school, but at the age I am it doesn't matter - I just have to find ways of dealing with it. I know it's painful, though, and my heart goes out to anyone younger who hasn't found their way yet. Some evenings I used to weep with frustration and sadness and just not understanding what was so bad about me that I had no friends. It gets better, OP and anyone else.

Hi OP, I think you sound really cool and a lot more self aware than most people I know! Possibly too self aware, in that you may be over thinking everything that you do which is bound to inhibit you in group situations
this may sound weird, but for me, if I've found myself sitting alone or not being involved in a group setting, I have joined a group and said something along the lines of, 'I was over there feeling like Billy no mates and you guys seemed to be having a lot more fun so can I talk to you!' . This leads to introductions etc and is a way of acknowledging something 99 percent of us feel at some point - most people want to be liked and find it intimidating to feel like the odd one out.
At uni if you are in halls I have no doubt that you will have a group that you can go on nights out with etc. Just try not to worry too much about how you are behaving or being perceived. You are not weird, you are an individual with quirks and flaws like every other human being in the world.
(and if it helps, my D'S has Aspergers and has a ton of friends - even if you do have it this won't prevent you from forming friendships)
Be kinder to yourself if you can.

I wonder whether it's worth trying to plan some safe questions to have up your sleeve in order to be able to chat to people and fill some gaps. Hairdressers are often especially good at this, not just asking about holidays. I think it's important though that you follow up their answers with either another question or a comment of your own. Not getting any relevant response is probably unnerving.

That is the sort of thing that is very much covered in the books I linked too.
Someone I know who read bits of all of them, is very much more talkative in social situations now. Says that they have changed his life in that regard. And improved his working life too. Even does presentations now with no more a problem than anyone else.

Good post MizK

Maggie Tony Attwood in The Complete Guide to Aspergers Syndrome talks a lot about how AS presents very differently in girls. It was reading this which finally persuaded me to get my daughter assessed - she was diagnosed with Aspergers last year. I don't think of it as a 'disorder' at all, it just means that she's wired a little differently. A diagnosis means that she can understand herself better and I can understand her (and myself) better.

The people who have called you wierd and creepy sound very immature, btw.