To wonder if I'm destined to be a socially inept loser forever?

[MaggieDoesntGoHereAnymore]

This is embarrassing but I have no friends. I've never really had friends to be honest - in Year Four at primary school I became 'friends' with a girl in my class and that was okay for about a year or so until she went off with another girl, leaving me out. I say we were 'friends' because I found out recently that she didn't actually want to play with me but her mum and the teachers made her so I wouldn't be alone. It was pretty much the same in secondary school and college - no friends and I was always alone.

I always make an effort to be nice to people and I would never intentionally be mean or hurt someone but I am socially awkward. I don't really 'get' people if that makes sense - I find them confusing. I always want to fit in but I don't always know how to engage with people or know when it's my turn to speak. I always end up making a fool of myself by saying something embarrassing or inappropriate but not realising it. Sometimes I genuinely do not know when it's my turn to speak or what to say so I just stay quiet.

My social awkwardness has meant I was bullied at school and college and even at work. Some of it was really nasty and aggressive but I won't go into that. I've even had people tell me that I'm a 'weirdo' and a 'creep' which upsets me because I try so hard to fit in and make friends but end up failing .

I'm now 23 and I honestly cannot see things improving. Like I said I've never really had a friend so when I hear people talk about how they are such good friends with x, how they can tell them anything and talk to them about anything and just seeing them have a good time together makes me upset because I've never had a bond like that and I desperately want one. Except I don't know how.

I've spent ages trying to figure out what it is with me and why I'm the way I am - I'm an only child but I know lots of other only children who aren't socially awkward and are outgoing, popular and have plenty of friends so I don't think that's it. I can't figure out what else it could be though.

Is there any hope or am I destined to be a friendless loser forever?

[BigRedBall]

Maggie I don't know anything about autism, but just wanted to say you sound like a lovely person! And whoever called you creepy and weird is a baboon's arse.

[Goldmandra]

Someone on another thread said it was like everyone else had been given a handbook on how to be social and outgoing and make lots of friends and for some reason they didn't get one. That's what it often feels like for me too.

My DD1 was 12 before we realised she had AS. Her diagnosis gave her the gift of insight into her own difficulties. She said that, up until that point, she has always had a nagging feeling that there was an undercurrent of communication going on in every conversation, especially amongst her peers, that she wasn't a party to. She could never work out what she was missing and it meant that she was usually the butt of the jokes.

When she was diagnosed she was given a place in a unit for pupils with ASD in her mainstream high school and, for the first time in her life, she felt fully socially included. She spent some considerable time using that unit as a haven where she felt safe before venturing out again into mainstream peer interactions with a new understanding of herself and the social world around her.

[Mehrida]

Hi Maggie

In my hockey club we have girls of 14 up to women of 58. We have teachers, students, SAHMs, shop staff, accountants etc. Overall, a huge range of people.

Some of us are closer than others, but we regularly all go out together and everyone is welcome.

I'm not sure you'd get that at a Uni sports club where they can be a bit cliquey. Why not email your local team, explain how you feel and ask to go along. There's often summer social hockey where you can choose to go for a drink afterwards to get to know people.

Sorry, this turned out really long! Hope it's some help. And if you ever find yourself in Scotland we've got a place for you at our club :)

[TweedleDi]

You mention your cousin has Asperger's - are they male? Asperger's is being found to present differently in females.

Have a poke around this site: taniaannmarshall.wordpress.com/2013/03/26/moving-towards-a-female-profile-the-unique-characteristics-abilities-and-talents-of-asperwomen-adult-women-with-asperger-syndrome/

[Chocovore]

Are you genuinely interested in people? I find people watching fascinating and trying to understand what makes people tick. Therefore most of my conversation 'ins' are asking questions about people's opinions on things. I find if you ask a few questions, the chatty people go on about themselves for ever , lol

[mumteedum]

Hey Maggie. I'm from north east too so I know what you mean about how everyone talks up there :)

Just couple of thoughts, if you like drama then could you get involved with theatre? Forgotten the name of it but friend of mine is writer and been involved in one I think Heaton /Jesmond. Creative types often embrace people who are a bit different I think.

The other thing is about uni. I lecture and in my subject I have at least 2 with aspergers and possibly another on spectrum if not 100% aspergers. The female student has some good friends and she is very socially awkward. I want to reassure you many people find kindred spirits at uni.

Finding new friends can be hard. I don't feel I fit in especially in town I now live in but I have gradually made some good friends. Possibly don't have as much in common with some of them but they're good friends and I try and make it work with stuff we do have in common.

[rabbitrisen]

That group sounds good beyond. I didnt know that it exists.
It is a shame that it is partly hidden in there.
If posters dont realise that they may possibly on the spectrum, they are not going to even find it on mumsnet.

[YeGodsAndLittleFishes]

Marking place. This is really interesting.

[BeyondTheLimitsOfAcceptability]

Heres the link
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/special_needs_chat/1987301-Support-thread-for-women-who-suspect-or-know-they-have-ASD-traits-or-are-on-the-spectrum?

[BeyondTheLimitsOfAcceptability]

Maggie, theres a support group for people who believe themselves to be somewhere on the spectrum in 'sn chat'. I'm on there too, having only added it all up recently

[rabbitrisen]

Some of overcoming social problems, is about being interested in other people.
In other words, look out instead of in so much.
Good luck.
Perhaps you can make an online group of friends on here. There are groups on the board. I should imagine there are quite a few people who would want to join.
Friends, good friends is a matter of finding like minded people.

[Eebahgum]

I'm not sure knowing something like that would help anyway.
It would be proof you're not weird, creepy, socially inept or any of the other horrific things you've been called by yourself and others. It would give you an understanding of yourself and why you find it hard to understand social rules and conventions. And it wound give you a huge community of people who are like you.
Autism and asd are spectrum disorders - everyone is on the spectrum somewhere. I can pick out examples of things most people do that are traits. Being given a diagnosis does not mean there's something wrong with you.

[wearenotinkansas]

hi Maggie, your post really made me feel for you. Being lonely is very hard and it can take its toll. I know those times when nobody calls. Its difficult to keep positive - and I am pretty certain that some people think I am weird. (apparently my 6 yr old godson told his parents that it was the "oddballs on the phone" the last time DP phoned his house!)

I doubt that I am on the spectrum but I was incredibly shy as a child and I still carry that with me now - a long time on!

But I think there has been some good advice on here that I would repeat. You mention drama and hockey as hobbies. I did drama too and found that most people who were into drama weren't people I could form relationships with. Mostly they were too cool or self interested to spend time on someone like me. Don't know about hockey, but wonder if hockey players might be quite confident and not needing to make friends?


So, other suggestions. Are there any people who interest you that you would like to spend more time with? I find if I am genuinely interested in someone then I am more likely to discover something in common and it seems like less effort to develop a friendship. If there is could you suggest something to do together? I would keep it low key and suggest a coffee, or a quick drink after work. For me, friendships take a lot of investment before they gel into something that will last.

Also, I think blokes can make great friends - but not if you fancy them (or vice versa) because that just gets confusing all round! And would be a whole other post.

Volunteering can also be quite a good way to meet people. What about BCTV , where you can go for a weekend. It is a good way to bond over a couple of days.

[MaggieDoesntGoHereAnymore]

Well it's nice to know there are other people like me.

There are a lot of female aspergers traits that fit me to be honest and I did one of those online AS tests earlier today just out of curiousity and scored highly on it (meaning that I have a good chance of having it) however not sure how accurate those things are. I'm not sure knowing I have something like that will make a difference anyway.

I live in the north east which I think makes my social awkwardness stand out more. People here will engage in small talk with strangers and everyone else seems fine to go along with that but whenever someone tries to make small talk with me I just get completely baffled over what to say or how to carry it on. I'm just like "yeah, okay" and I'm sure some people just think I'm rude but I really don't get social chit chat.

As a young child at school, about reception age I really wanted to play with the other kids but I honestly did not know how to join in. So I was alone all the time and that's been pretty much my life since Someone on another thread said it was like everyone else had been given a handbook on how to be social and outgoing and make lots of friends and for some reason they didn't get one. That's what it often feels like for me too.

Maybe at university it will be different and maybe there will be someone there I can 'click' with, at least I hope so because I so want to fit in and make friends and I'm just so lonely

[satintaupe]

I should add that I'm not on the spectrum, I'm just socially awkward.

[satintaupe]

"Usually it's when I'm with people and I can't think of anything to say and just stay quiet."

I'm exactly the same. It's really bad when I'm in a group, I can sit and not say a word the whole time. I can't think of things to say, or I think of something but worry that it'll sound stupid. If I pluck up the courage to speak then it's usually too late as the conversation moves on. I'm an introvert so i avoid group situations where possible, I'm happy being on my own. However, I do now take my DD to a baby group for her sake and it's not as bad as I imagined. I'm still no good in the group, but I'll usually find one person to talk to - I'm much better one-on-one, or I'll interact with DD.

"I can also go off in a daydream and apparently get a 'far away' look during this time which people find odd."

I don't do this but my husband does, and I suspect he's on the spectrum (for numerous reasons). It's hard to imagine it if you don't know someone who does it but it is strange, it's as though he's in his own world and he isn't aware that you're talking to him. Sometimes, I'll ask him a question, call his name a few times trying to get his attention and he doesn't respond. After a few minutes of silence and when you're convinced he hasn't heard the question he'll suddenly answer the question. He's aware he does it because people tell him, but I don't think he realises at the time.

[BoyFromTheBigBadCity]

Op, if it's any consolation, knowing what to say, when to speak, the exact social situation, and always getting it completely right is abnormal. Feeling awkward if you think k you're not quite on track, or are confused, and getting flustered, is normal. Though I hate the word normal. A diagnosis won't change you if you choose that route, but (as a pp said) will help you understand yourself.

Also worth thinking about - many of the people you see, who appear to effortlessly make friends, talk to anyone, have worked hard at it, or have to be loud to overcome shyness - it's a coping mechanism. Please don't be so hard on yourself

[CrabbyBlossomBottom]

Maggie Tony Attwood in The Complete Guide to Aspergers Syndrome talks a lot about how AS presents very differently in girls. It was reading this which finally persuaded me to get my daughter assessed - she was diagnosed with Aspergers last year. I don't think of it as a 'disorder' at all, it just means that she's wired a little differently. A diagnosis means that she can understand herself better and I can understand her (and myself) better.

The people who have called you wierd and creepy sound very immature, btw.

[Journey]

Good post MizK

[rabbitrisen]

I wonder whether it's worth trying to plan some safe questions to have up your sleeve in order to be able to chat to people and fill some gaps. Hairdressers are often especially good at this, not just asking about holidays. I think it's important though that you follow up their answers with either another question or a comment of your own. Not getting any relevant response is probably unnerving.


That is the sort of thing that is very much covered in the books I linked too.
Someone I know who read bits of all of them, is very much more talkative in social situations now. Says that they have changed his life in that regard. And improved his working life too. Even does presentations now with no more a problem than anyone else.

[MizK]

Hi OP, I think you sound really cool and a lot more self aware than most people I know! Possibly too self aware, in that you may be over thinking everything that you do which is bound to inhibit you in group situations
this may sound weird, but for me, if I've found myself sitting alone or not being involved in a group setting, I have joined a group and said something along the lines of, 'I was over there feeling like Billy no mates and you guys seemed to be having a lot more fun so can I talk to you!' . This leads to introductions etc and is a way of acknowledging something 99 percent of us feel at some point - most people want to be liked and find it intimidating to feel like the odd one out.
At uni if you are in halls I have no doubt that you will have a group that you can go on nights out with etc. Just try not to worry too much about how you are behaving or being perceived. You are not weird, you are an individual with quirks and flaws like every other human being in the world.
(and if it helps, my D'S has Aspergers and has a ton of friends - even if you do have it this won't prevent you from forming friendships)
Be kinder to yourself if you can.

[DorisAllTheDay]

Maggie, I really feel for you. I also went through school and college and much of my 20s (I'm almost 50 now) without friends. After a while I think it got to be self-perpetuating - I didn't have friends so I didn't do social chit-chat or more intense 'friend talk', and because I never had any practice at doing social chit-chat and friend talk, I got worse and worse at it. Two things made a big difference for me. First, I read in a magazine the advice that someone gave up-thread. Most people's favourite topic of conversation is themselves, so if you're stuck for something to say, ask them something about what's going on in their lives. I still over-rely on this if I'm honest, and sometimes I get a surprised reaction when I've been just a bit too nosy through not quite getting the boundaries, but mostly it works well for me. The second thing was joining walking groups. Walking is great for making friends because you can kind of slip into and out of conversations and have long silences or periods on your own and it doesn't matter. The fact that you're walking removes some of the intensity of eye contact (which you may well be getting wrong, like I often do) and the 'cue' rules don't work in quite the same way. I'm quite clumsy so have to be helped over any rocky bits, and that's a good conversation-starter too!

When I was at school and college no-one had heard of Aspergers. I think I would almost certainly be diagnosed now given what I was like at school, but at the age I am it doesn't matter - I just have to find ways of dealing with it. I know it's painful, though, and my heart goes out to anyone younger who hasn't found their way yet. Some evenings I used to weep with frustration and sadness and just not understanding what was so bad about me that I had no friends. It gets better, OP and anyone else.

[TestingTestingWonTooFree]

I wonder whether it's worth trying to plan some safe questions to have up your sleeve in order to be able to chat to people and fill some gaps. Hairdressers are often especially good at this, not just asking about holidays. I think it's important though that you follow up their answers with either another question or a comment of your own. Not getting any relevant response is probably unnerving.

In my experience, freshers week was all - where are you living? What course are you on? What a levels did you do? What did you do in your gap year?
There are loads of clubs and societies at university so there's scope to meet people with whom you share a common interest.

[rabbitrisen]

I am glad that you are having really good answers on this thread.

I would agree with finding out more, and accepting things if necessary.

3 general books that might help

How to win friends and influence people
The quick and easy way to effective speaking
Messages - the communication skills book

[PrincessBabyCat]

^Usually it's when I'm with people and I can't think of anything to say and just stay quiet. I've been called "weird" for that as apparently it's creepy to not say anything. But like I said I generally cannot tell when it's my turn to speak or what is appropriate to say so find it best not to speak.

I can also go off in a daydream and apparently get a 'far away' look during this time which people find odd.^

That's what they find weird? Maybe you're just surrounded by assholes.

I do the same thing. I'm either quiet and spacey. Or I'm just off the wall and blurting out what ever pops into my inappropriate little brain. But I also know when I'm making people squirm and can back off. I think the key is to just remain friendly, and it'll smooth over most wrinkles (And if it doesn't, you don't want high strung people as friends anyway).

I've found like friends that are just as weird and quirky as I am. Uni is a great place to make weird friends. Everyone is weird in college, you'll more likely than not fit right in. :)

Also, I have a friend who is on the spectrum, and she's pretty awesome. I can't use sarcasm around her because she takes it literally, but otherwise we get along great. If you don't want to be labeled, that's fine, but reading some ASD self help books might help you with social queues (heck, they would probably help a lot of socially awkward people not on the spectrum).