To be sad and appalled that a healthy diet is now beyond the reach of many.

[Darkesteyes]

Absolutely appalling. And it will have an effect on the NHS. Poorer people are bashed for being poor.. and bashed for being overweight. Why do I have a feeling its only going to get worse.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-27225323

I was in that we chat and I totally missed him basing people for being on a low income.

I admire him for trying and I like the fact he's looking at sharing practical skills that are desperately lacking.

I thought the women pushing chips through the fence at the schools he was trying to help was one of the saddest sights I've seen.

Anyway, sorry if that was not the point of this thread.

If you can cook, you can feed your family well for very little money. That's why people keep going on about it. I would also be willing to help more and would happily teach people how to cook.

You don't need complicated ingredients or expensive specialist equipment. The basics can be bought from any supermarket or places like wilkos or ikea for very little. I have a very tiny kitchen (if there are two people in it, it is too full - I've seen the photos of Jack Monroe's kitchen - her's is bigger). I have my fridge freezer in the living room to make it less crowded. I keep a box of tinned food under the bed to free up cupboard space. But I still cook most meals.

Perhaps people could also donate their surplus items to food banks. I have more knives and chopping boards than I need and would love to give some away to anyone who could use them.

But this thread has clearly illustrated one of the things that I find most confusing about Mumsnet.

If you post on here and make spelling mistakes, confuse there/they're/their etc, you will get ripped to shreds.

If you admit to cleaning your toilet less than once a day, you will be judged as being a filthy mare.

But, for anyone who is unable to provide their DCs with a basic, adequate diet, which can be done for very little, as many people have said, an army of people will defend them vocifousrosly (sp ).

But it is very likely to be exactly the same people that have trouble cooking, as those who find it difficult to keep a clean and tidy house, or don't have a perfect grip of the English language, particularly when it is due to things like poverty, mental health issues or learning difficulties, and especially as the the 'Mumsnet Standard' for toilet cleaning involves copious amounts of bleach, wipes, rubber gloves, disposable toilet brushes and an inordinate amount of effort.

So why are people judged more for making often inconsequential spelling mistakes, or not having a spotless toilet, but if you ever judge anyone for not feeding their children properly, even when it's not always 'cant' but sometimes is 'won't', you get told to fuck off, or hinted at that you're thinking is straying into Nazi terrortories .

I can't be the only person that places decent food, which can still be cheap and quick and easy to prepare, as more important than perfect written English or spotless toilets, can I?

That's a great idea, Ilkley, about donating utensils & stuff.

The Nazi comment was made in reply to someone who said underprivileged people shouldn't be allowed to have children.

And the problem remains: you cannot cook healthy, budget meals if you have no money. Even if you know how to do it!

If you can cook, you also need fuel to do it.

The person who got accused of thinking like a Nazi didn't say underprivileged people shouldn't have children, they said that if people couldn't prioritise their children's basic needs (ie basic healthy food) over things like televisions and cigarettes, then perhaps they shouldn't have children - not the same.

The discussion at the time was that within underpriviledged communities, it was considered more important for poor people to have nice televisions and clothes so that they did not look 'poor' than it was to eat decent food .

Ilkley this is where the disconnect between individuals and society happens. A general problem with poor diets is a social problem and can only be rely tackled at a social level. The individual you are communicating with having poor spelling is also a social problem but can be changed on an individual level.

Has anyone else read the road to Wigan pier? That illustrated nicely for me the age-old problem of blaming the under privileged for the position they are in.

OnIlkley the concern about "looking poor" They ARE doing it for their children to prevent them being bullied at school for "being poor" I saw other kids get bullied at school back in the 80s. I don't have DC but I bet nothing in this has really changed.

The person who got accused of thinking like a Nazi didn't say underprivileged people shouldn't have children, they said that if people couldn't prioritise their children's basic needs (ie basic healthy food) over things like televisions and cigarettes, then perhaps they shouldn't have children - not the same

Thank you OnIlkley

Those saying that the poor don't put their children first. Do you realise that part of the reason some of the adults are malnourished is that they do without to make sure their children get a decent diet and the house is heated and lit for the children.

We are talking about people who prefer to buy a cool television and then feed their children crap uselessidiot

Haven't read whole thread. I've just finished the live below the line sponsored challenge. I had to live off £1 a day for 5 days for all my food and drink. When you're on a very tight budget you don't consider what is healthy- you consider what is cheap, and what will fill you up.
Cheapest fruit I could find- 79p for 7 pears. But a big packet of digestive biscuits was 31p. With far more calories. So what did I buy? The biscuits. I know that the pears were better for me, but I needed calories.
So yes, healthy food can be cheap. You can survive on a very small amount of money. I can cook. But when money is very tight all that matters is how full you feel. And healthy food doesn't always make you feel as full as cheap carbs.

I'm really lucky- I only had to do this for 5 days so there was an end in sight. But for those people who constantly have to choose the cheap, filling stuff over the healthy choices. I'm not judging them if that's what they feed their kids. I know how crap I felt with not quite enough food and no fresh fruit.

"I grew up in the fifties, the youngest of a large family. My Mother cooked every day. We never had a main meal without green vegetables or salads of some kind and we ate plenty of fruit in season. She bought the cheapest cuts of meat and made tasty nutritious meals. She made stock and made her own soups."

Did your mum work outside the home?

i would imagine very people actually choose to by a tv over feeding their DC (but it obviously does happen) rather finances are not properly planned so money comes into the household, perhaps it is spent sensibly, perhaps not, perhaps debt are acquired (for reasons good and less so), maybe circumstances change.....then there is not enough money for food.

so a tv may have been bought but there is no direct choice between it and food, however much the consequence of bad spending decisions is lack of money for basics.

CorusKate simple they put tv above feeding their children, no big mystery

so a tv may have been bought but there is no direct choice between it and food

So if you spend most of your money on a tv, there is no link between that and the quality of food you can buy

Cheapest fruit I could find- 79p for 7 pears

You didn't look in the right places then, I bought 12 apples for 36p last night

But when money is very tight all that matters is how full you feel

Crappy carbs will make you feel hungry again quite soon so very poor value to fill yourself up with crap

I have worked with troubled families and it is surprising how many can afford bottles of wine and cans of lager yet buy the crappest of food for their kids

iwant someone could buy a TV on HP at a time when they could afford both the repayments and healthy food. Something could then happen to cause a drop in income but they're locked into a contract for repayments. It really doesn't take much imagination if you're prepared to think about it rather than being intent on bashing them.

I will say again there is no point telling someone they are shit, disgusting or whatever. It will become a self fulfilling prophecy because even if someone's reason for struggling is different from what you think telling someone they're disgusting will help destroy any self confidence they have left, make it scarier to ask for support and guidance isolating them further. All that achieves is making it harder to improve things. But hey! Why should we care it's more fun if we have one more person to bashm