To be sad and appalled that a healthy diet is now beyond the reach of many.

[Darkesteyes]

Absolutely appalling. And it will have an effect on the NHS. Poorer people are bashed for being poor.. and bashed for being overweight. Why do I have a feeling its only going to get worse.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-27225323

People are desperate they will engage to the minimum degree but will not ask for further help they may need due to fear of judging.

In addition to the growing numbers attending food banks there are growing numbers going without food completely because they are too scared to ask for help.

I've helped treat people like this, vomiting after their first hospital meal (they're quite good in our hospital) because it's the most they've eaten in months. Blood test results all over the place in such a way the doctor can only attribute it to malnutrition. I've seen the fear in their eyes when we suggest food banks or other help charities. This is just the thin edge of the wedge, the ones who end up in hospital.

Actually not having a pot is a real thing although not having enough money for the meter to cook things is significantly more common.

When I lost everything and had to start again I had nothing. When things started to improve and we got a tenancy on a flat the kitchen consisted of some cupboards and a sink. We had no cooker, fridge, freezer, utensils, pots and pans etc. We were on a low income and had to pay rent, council tax , commute to work, pay utility bills and commute to work. It took some time to build up a kitchen. I love cooking and experimenting with recipes. I'm not too bad at adapting recipes to what I have but I struggled having nothing to cook on.

I don't think anyone has been arguing that the poor can abdicate responsibility. They're arguing that it's more complicated than "learn to cook" and that the issues will not be fixed by calling them stupid, irresponsible or looking down on them.

Just because I found it difficult to cook without a cooker does not mean I'm ignorant baby. Btw if it's any consolation on day one we didn't have anything else either ie beds, floor coverings, TV, something to sit on etc. And no I didn't buy anything from Brighthouse and we didn't buy a TV. Although someone did give us their spare TV as they had 3. Unfortunately it's rare to have more than one cooker.

But, Baby, malnutrition's a terrible problem in Africa & India. I'm very uncomfortable about this kind of comparison, which has been made (as usual) a few times on the thread. I lived in a '2nd world' country for five years. Sure, people eat. But there are widespread, severe, abnormalities and illnesses that visitors might put down to tropical diseases and ignorance, which are consequences of lifelong malnutrition.

Talking of lifelong consequences, one should always look at life expectancy before praising another population's lifestyle. Did you know that the average life expectancy for the Victorian low-waged was 28 (15 in Liverpool!), while the middle/upper classes lived around 70 years? The lower classes were literally 'looked down upon', too, being 6" shorter than their betters. These facts were put down to genetic inferiority, not the poor diet & living conditions that really caused the differences. Current government/daily mail attitudes, reflected now throughout British society, seem to be Victorian in this regard.

It's very worrying.

Having said that I've had a lot of bung in the oven food days lately doesn't mean that I can't cook. I can, on a very tight budget. My standards and will power are just slipping. I'm tired of fighting. I'm tired of trying to make £50 stretch to cover a food shop, a few bus fares and topping up the gas and elec meters. The past few weeks I just don't seem to have the will to spend another dinner time making a stew or a curry which DD will again dislike and be forced to eat. I am struggling with the whole everyday routine of life at the moment. Garlic was spot on earlier when she talked about mental health. I have struggled with depression and anxiety for most of my teens and adult life. When I'm stressed the anxiety tends to get worse, and I really struggle with every day things.

I have a list on the fridge. Some days it's said "curry tonight, use leftovers, ring Jobcentre, post parcel" and some days it's said "have shower, put washing on, try and spend half an hour out the house". On the latter days I go into autopilot and will just throw something in the oven. It's almost like I need to withdraw inside myself for a day to recover and then the next day I wake up feeling ready to take on the world again. To some people looking it would look like laziness, but it isn't. It's very easy to say there's no excuse for x y or z when you aren't living it.

Re. The not having a pot to cook in, it's often the case that those families don't have a lot of other things. There's always something else that's needed and who is to say that chosing to buy badly needed shoes for example is wrong, especially when to that family, the children are being fed, no one is going hungry so the cooking pot would seem to be less important than the shoes/sofa/toothpaste/lunchbox.

The way I cook now is healthy but still carb loaded. Salads for eg aren't going to keep a 3 year old full for long. Stewed root veg and potatoes in gravy with bread will. Yes that's a lot of carbs but it's cheap and filling. It isn't particularly healthy though. When the money corset loosens I will add in more meat and greenery but I will prioritise meat over the greenery.

I too work with foodbank organisations and I find your posts jarring, Iwantsun. :(

AShadowStirsWithin... I understand your posts perfectly. I wish there was a quick solution to all this, I really do.

oh tits is it not possible. you just have to be less fixed about what's acceptable. We eat loads of fruit and veg, seasonal stuff and not fancy-pants expensive varieties like Pink Lady apples every week ffs and grow what we can in our postage-stamp-sized garden...

ashadow I understand . There are days when you do get tired of fighting.
I don't have DC I have a partner in poor health. Back in the late 90s to early 00s we were struggling to eat and again in 2006 when he had his heart attack and developed ischemic heart disease and often still has breathing difficulties.

We were living on 40 pounds a week after paying rent and council tax And that 40 pounds had to pay for his prescriptions as well as food water gas electric etc. We certainly did NOT have the money to eat healthily as his medication was the priority.

Sigh ...

I was sighing at mrspremise's unoriginal contribution, Darkets, not yours & Ashadow's!

No probs Garlic. x

You've got to consider the exhaustion of a lot of low skill jobs too. I'm not superwoman and if I had to stand all day serving in a shop or clean or work in a warehouse hauling things at the end of the day id be up to sticking something in the oven at best. I do find these threads helpful because I support charities like Red Cross and save the children due to children dying in other countries, and I have gotten into the mindset a bit of thinking if you don't feed your children at least a basic decent diet here you have bad priorities.

I think it's hard for some people to afford food, however I also think that as a society we've lost sight of what a 'healthy' diet is.

Many people think you need meat daily or at least very often (expensive and not a necessity for a healthy diet), junk food manufacturers plug us rubbish and unnecessary food with no nutritional value, takeaways are seen as normal etc.

I think it's possible to eat cheaply on staples like rice, potatoes, lentils, beans etc and fruit and veg is often on offer at Sainsbury, Aldi etc. It doesn't suit the likes of Mars and coca cola that their products should be abandoned, but it would probably save a lot of money and improve health if we could do it (I waste money on junk food, I'd like to kick it...)

I'm now thinking I need to start funding and distributing food boxes amongst the clients I would usually refer to our local food bank.

I'm not entirely comfortable with running the risk that I will send a vulnerable client into another support service where the staff will be making such huge assumptions about them and looking down on them

Its extremely worrying Sock Unfortunately ive seen this before on MN and on fb with a couple of people who had some very disparaging views on single parents yet part of their work was helping single parents If what was written on posts in these cases in true rather (than just goading) it appears to me that certain people are doing this work because they like to feel superior.

As a child of the 70's , we never had crisps in the house , occasionally my dad would bring back a packet from the pub and i would be allowed those . We didnt have a fruit bowl either . We didnt have biscuits in the hosue and no home baking . You had breakfast , lunch and tea . Home made ice lollies in the summer ( a mix of milk and cordial ) and the occasional 5p to go and get some sw
eets from the shops . I started to become overweight from the age of about 7 or 8 , and yet i did the same amount of exercise as all my friends , walked to and from school etc . I started dieting at 11 and am more overweight now than i have ever been .

Baby barrister, when I temporarily had no pot it wasn't because I didn't value cooking. It's because I'd lost almost everything. I had a couple of bags with essential documents, some photos for memories, some clothes and a toilet bag. Getting to the stage of being able to cook again.

I think a healthy diet is affordable for all, you just have to have skills and buy seasonably plus grow your own as some are very easy to grow.

Ok lauranda what was I missing, bearing in mind I'd lost everything. I'd luckily finally got a tenancy. No garden, cooker, fridge, freezer, pre-payment metre, no savings left trying to survive. Tax credits and HB a disaster zone so not getting anything at that point.

I earned £138 a week. Had to pay £68 per week rent, £25 per week council tax and £30 commuting to work. If it's so easy tell me why I struggled to eat at all during this period. BTW I can cook and know basic nutritional facts.

Try getting my 4yo DS to eat lentils or rice! He refuses most veg and is unbelievably fussy about meat. But he'll wolf down chips and chicken nuggets/burgers, so that's what I cook him. It's not the healthiest food in the world, but at least he's eating. And when you can't afford to waste food, that's definitely the better option. And he'll eat fruit and eggs and yoghurt, so he's getting some goodness.

After a long day of work, it's hard to have the energy to faff about in the kitchen. After all, a large chunk of people below the poverty line have jobs. We're hovering just above it, with two wage earners. It's tough, and something quick and filling makes more sense than something that takes more time, effort and fuel to make.

We only buy tesco value. I'm sure I can get certain things cheaper elsewhere, but we don't have the time or money to traipse around different shops looking for a bargain. It might be hard to believe, but shopping around is only possible if you're less poor.

I really hope some of the more judgemental people on this thread never fall on hard times. With such difficulty understanding reality, I don't think they'd cope.