In watching this panorama documentary to...

[Psycobabble]

Want to punch the faces in of the staff who've been secretly filmed abusing the poor old people in care homes . Bastards. Anyone watching?

A lot of family carers are subject to violence in their home An issue that's often swept under the carpet.
They don't get to walk away.

^A lot of family carers are subject to violence in their home An issue that's often swept under the carpet.
They don't get to walk away^

And so many go left unsupported. 'professional' healthcare assistants are entitled to all sorts of training, moving and handling, person centred care, dementia training, safe guarding etc whereas family carers have nothing. They don't get the support, they don't get to clock off and handover to the next person on shift. They really are a failed group of our society. :(

Yes, sometimes it is the level of violence that makes a family carer place a relative with dementia in a home.

YY Tequila

Fair point turgiday

Look at the OP's post. How did she want to react upon seeing what was filmed? With violence herself.... Facing violence in the workplace should not be considered a hazard of the profession. The only comparable situation I can think of is the military/police but at least they are trained and permitted how to fight back. It's all very well to say that if you can't stomach it, you're in the wrong job but how many would accept that at those wages? Only the desperate. In the U.S, violent patients are sectioned and removed. Yes, the families have to deal with the repercussions of that too.

Of course HCP's should be much better paid and better supported. But how do you think violent dementia patients should be looked after if you think no worker should have to deal with anyone who is violent? Or what about children who are violent? Or adults with head injuries who can be violent?

Do we just abandon them and say that it is not our problem?

You can't section every elderly person who is violent. They need a very specific type of care and being sectioned cannot offer that. Why do you think they are in these homes in the first place? We're supposed to be able to deal with volatile individuals and situations. It's when people are poorly trained, or the client has been incorrectly assessed and sent to a residential unit instead of a specialist EMI unit that's when the problems start first and foremost. Then it's a domino effect.

I started off on 3.63 an hour because it was a job I wanted to do. We need more people going into it because they want that sort if job rather than going because it's just a job. Obviously I don't blame them because they need the money, but we're getting the wrong people.

Everybody who works with people with dementia, should have specific dementia training. That would help.

I've read through this whole thread and mimi, I'm shocked by your attitude that you can see why the carer would hit back! I'm a Year R teacher with a VERY difficult child in my class at the moment. I get kicked, scratched, hit and verbally abused everyday. Not for one second have I thought it would be OK to retaliate. Elderly vulnerable people don't know what they are doing, as said by other posters they deserve and need specialist care. The attitude that you can see why they retaliated gives false understanding and credence to unforgivable behaviour. It's never understandable or acceptable.

Agreed. Would you be okay if a teacher hit your child if they were autistic and hit out at the teacher?

I agree with Lara, these people are vulnerable adults, they cannot help their behaviour it's part of their illness, if you think hitting them back is acceptable then you shouldn't be in that job. You would nit hit a child so you don't an vulnerable adult! It could happen to you Mimi, would you like staff looking after you to have that attitude you do!

So Mimi what do you do, put them on an island and leave them there! It us good your not a carer, it's staff attitude towards tge people that can accacerbate their behaviour.

Of course I am not saying that slapping back is an appropriate response to abuse from clients, just that it's understandable how it can get to that point. As it happens, my son has a PDD-NOS diagnosis due to a speech disorder and if he lashes out physically (which is rare), he gets time-outs and removal of privileges -computer time mostly. Once he kicked a teacher in kindergarten when she tried to remove him from the playground equipment (daughter reported it to me) and he was taken in early the next day to apologise to her and was given a stern talking to by the deputy. At no time have we, his pediatrician or therapists excused violent behaviour as just being a manifestation of his frustrations with communication. It's simply unacceptable and saying that the carers must be doing something wrong to provoke them to that point is not right ...that's really not much difference from blaming victims of domestic violence (eg 'if only she didn't nag him', 'she's too brusque with him and that's why he lashed out').

This is an interesting thread on the topic.

allnurses.com/nursing-issues-patient/how-much-verbal-12828.html

We saw in the documentary that the carers were provoking the elderly lady. The way they moved her on the bed they hurt her - she has pain on one side because of a stroke. If you are very vulnerable and other adults are hurting you, lashing out is your only defence mechanism.

And don't compare dementia patrients to adult men who are fully compis mentis. Dementia patients can have totally lost touch with reality. Adult men who abuse their partners, have not. Hence the often asked question - does he hit his boss when he is frustrated?

Tge difference between DV and dementia, is that those who commit DV are totally aware and accountable for their actions, a Dementia sufferer is not! I expect if they did not have dementia they would be horrified by their behaviour. So what do you do with them, send them to prison! Actually that would be a great idea, the would get free care, 3 meals a day, access to the library, courses.

This is a council run care home
This is the crux of the matter. My DM was very happy in the council run home where she spent the last 18 months of her life. It all goes back to the fact that the pressure to make a profit is not there - so people can actually do the job that they are employed to do, and care for the residents...
Of course, the home that my Mum was in has been closed as part of the cost-cutting forced on councils by this government, so that their mates can swan in - with the results that we have seen so horrifyingly this week...

My gran was in a care home for the last five years of her life when she couldn't cope in sheltered housing any more. Thankfully, it was one of the better ones and she had a son and daughters who came to see her every day. Still, my gran had a very strong sense of justice and couldn't bear to think of anyone being badly treated. At 89 years old, she would still pull up staff who she thought had spoken a little sharply to mrs X or who had left mr Y waiting too long for his cup of tea

My gran was old, pretty deaf and very arthritic but of sound mind and there was nothing she disliked more than a bully. She was a fantastic woman. It is terrible to think that there are many elderly people who have no voice or family to ensure their quality of care. Not that they should have to. Quality care and respect should be a given

I found it hard to watch. I use to work in an elderly care home that specialized in dementia and am grateful that the care assistants I worked with was not only supportive of one another but very caring and genuinely enjoyed caring for the elderly. The management on the other hand was a whole different kettle of fish, their only concern was bringing in profit, and they couldn’t really care less about the staff or residents.
I remember one incident when the nurse wasn’t in so the senior manager had to give the residents their medication; she just handed the medication over to them and walked off! She didn’t even check to see if they swallowed it, one elderly lady didn’t and threw the tablet on the ground, fortunately me an another care assistant witnessed this and told the senior manager that you have watch them take it. About an hour later we was in the managers office with him telling us that it is very difficult job being the senior manager and that we had no right to question the senior like that as we was not qualified enough in medicine!

I agree, council run homes are much better as profit does not come into it, and staff generally are there because they care. When you work in a home where there are people with dementia, you have to accept all aspects of the job, even the more unpleasant e.g if you were in the a Police, or health staff. If you can't, then you should not be in the job. There should be strategies in place if a patient does lash out, you do not hit back. I have never wanted to hit any of tge patients who have lashed out at me!

I am in Management...3rd week! Lots of things to change and have made a good start...need more staff that are decent......have had nightmare with mental health team and reported them to safeguarding as have left the person,people who live at the home in vulnerable position.There are fab people out there...My owner is not money grabbing...but agree profit and healthcare do not mix.I see staff exhausted trying to do their best.Feel massively let down by NHS agencies also...very easy just to blame managers and owners...it is deeper even than that

My grandfather fell over when he was in a care home. Now older people do have falls, even in care homes, so no criticism for that but it was late and they were 'busy', so they put him back him despite him complaining of pain. Let me just add that he was a very stoical man, he rarely complained even though he had a very painful disease in addition to dementia. He had completely shattered his hip bone and was left in pain with 2 paracetamol overnight. I don't care how restricted staff numbers may be, you do need leave a vulnerable older person in pain all night. It's just cruel.

^ "you do not leave" not "you do need leave"

Doobydoo, I agree that it runs a lot deeper than just management. We had social services let us down and lie to us, agencies and the NHS. I believe the health and social care on all sectors need a reform, how though I’m not really sure.

Congratulations on your job .