In watching this panorama documentary to...

[Psycobabble]

Want to punch the faces in of the staff who've been secretly filmed abusing the poor old people in care homes . Bastards. Anyone watching?

My uncle lives in a not for profit catholic nursing home. Its like a 5 star hotel with nurses. The same staff have been there for the 3 years he has. Its £1000 a week. He is fully with it, no dementia etcn so I would know if things were not right. His only complaint is the fact they never get steak as he is the only one with his own teeth!

My brother has severe learning and physical disabilites, and is about as vulnerable as a person can be. He lives in his own flat in a 12 flat unit run by a private company, paid for by the local authority. In the last 9 months since he moved in, there have been NINE reported safegaurding issues. I can't go into too much detail, but each one is profoundly shocking. At one point the council sent in a sort of A Team of council staff to get things running properly as things were so awful for all the residents.

They decided not to rescind the companies contract, and they went back to running it after a few weeks of getting their act together/sacking staff/recruiting new manager etc.

Things are better, but most of the staff are very very young (cheap), or agency staff with poor English.

It is my full time job watching them like a hawk. I don't sleep so well.

Myitchy there should be more people like you in care homes, you sound absolutely fab I agree halfwilding tat money is lining the pockets of the owners of these companies running the care homes, not providing great care and facilities. It's becoming a lucrative business, the wrong people are running them. Put them back into the hands of the state.

That is disgusting tequila, that is why I really want to look after my mum if she cannot look after herself.

This is the thing that forms my nightmares. My Mother hades Dementia and is really paranoid. She says things that are untrue about people and believes them. I'm pretty certain they aren't true but think, how woukd I know ?

She's in a Home run by a Charitable Trust which I've been impressed with so far. Tomorrow I'm driving up to meet my Brother where we used to live to look at a Home there - also run by a Trust and several MNetters have recommended it plus other people I know. I'm as confident about it as I can be.

It seems to be that the whole care of the Elderly needs a big rethink. I'd like to see more community built Not for Profit retirement villages designed with continuity of care in mind. Supported living flats, Nursing Home and Dementia care, local Trustees.

It was very very depressing to read our LA is closing a council run Dememtia home and day centre and contracting out to a private chain who have recently built a new Home.

My nan is currently in a home, she fell & fractured her shoulder so the hospital decided it would be best for her to be in this care home rather than the hospital to avoid potential infection & she can't go to her own home as requires more or less full time care at the moment.
Upon arrival the place looks lovely, nan has dementia so she's in 'the basement'- it's a shithole that resembles what I can only describe as a prison, want to sob when I visit as is just awful.

Oh god, this is so terrible. In January my friend started working in a 27 bed, private, residential home which has many dementia patients. The residents are often very difficult but she has seen the owner hit one and shout horribly at several more. I've done a search and can see this home has been investigated before but is considered to have improved. There is a whistleblower's notice up on the staff noticeboard which I think it is now required to display.

I am really encouraging my friend to report this. She is considering it, especially as she wants to leave anyway.

I could only watch a little bit. Heart-breaking. Elderly care is so very poor.

nemno please please please keep on at your friend, I just thought with all the elderly , they are someones mother, grandma etc....how would I want my beloved grandparents treated...

I spoke to a nurse who said the owners would calli n occasionally in bentleys but one lady was so de hyrated as soon as she got on shift she wanted to call an ambulance....

people have to speak out! this could be us one day....relying on someone plucking up courage to help us....whilst we are trapped in a living hell hole of prison and torture....

nemo you could jot off your own email to QCC,or whooever it is...

MyUsernameIsPants

I am down south but the company in charge of a close disabled relative of mine was nationwide, Turn stone...

• paulapantsdown

I would be interested to know if it was Turnstone.

I had a similar situation and it ended in the worse possible way.

Myitchy - you sound like a great care home manger. That's what's missing good leadership. I have no idea who our manger is. Like I say I only work weekends. There is no one in.

Training was very poor. I was basically ignored on my induction days because no-one was paid enough to take on the role of trainer or senior carer on the days when I was/am in. I've basically been left to find my own way about. Drag lifts are common. I've only seen a slide sheet in training.

BTW the home I work in is a not for profit organisation. Still, there are no funds for things like toothbrushes and if a client doesn't have family to buy a replacement one then they can go without. I have seen care staff go out and buy some with their own money when they are on lunch break.

It's so hard. I watched the program last night and much of it was unacceptable but some of it was understandable. Like when the undercover reporter said "The staff don't make the time to sit down with the resident's and listen to their stories". Er no love, you heard how the call bells were going off and you're getting paid £6 an hour - you don't have the time and you don't actually really care about their life stories anyway. The staff probably know that the elderly clients or their relatives are paying £700 a week to be there and they know that they, the staff, are considered dispensable - combined with often being from a completely different culture, language difficulties and all they are seeing a rich, elderly white people who've been dumped by their families to put up with the shit(literally) they can't cope with.

Doesn't make the abuse or neglect right. Of course there should be more oversight but those who survive working in those conditions are often the toughest. Tough people are generally not nice people. They will do stuff like hire their relatives/friends over someone from the same culture when they get into positions of power. That is how it goes down in the countries they are imported from all the time.if you are going to be paying that sort of money anyway, it would probably be better to hire someone to come into your home to do it.

I don't believe the profits are going to be that high anyway. It's like daycare centers, they have huge costs.

Mimi whilst I agree with some of the points, eg staff don't have the time to sit with residents as tgey are constantly in demand, yes most of us carers do care about the people we help, we are very interested in their life stories, gosh I have heard some fascinating stories. If you feel that way then you are in the wrong job. Yes I was paid minimum wage, but I never stopped caring. I fave up when I had dd and I could not afford childcare on that wage.

I'd sooner work in Tesco than be a carer. That boils down to the wages. Being a carer is physically demanding, unsociable hours and not especially pleasant as well as emotionally draining.

This is disgusting... I'm a care worker and would NEVER treat anyone in the way that is shown in this programme. However, I'm aware of care workers who do! Although I believe they are at fault, the person or people to blame are the organisation... Too little training, too little pay (minimum wage - ridiculous!), too little supervision, understaffing... Cultural abuse... This programme is nothing new. It happens EVERYWHERE! The sooner that people realise and do more about it the better!

Even this thread has been an eye opener. I'm so shocked people have stories to match my own. It's so so sad.

I'd sooner work in Tesco than be a carer. That boils down to the wages. Being a carer is physically demanding, unsociable hours and not especially pleasant as well as emotionally draining.

This. The woman in the documentary, Anita, who slapped Joan was scratched three or four times before she slapped back. That was all on camera. Would the patient be up for assault too? Her daughter said she wasn't like that before but that is what age-related dementia does to some people. When I volunteered at a home as a GG in my early teens (brushing hair, painting nails etc) we heard of staff being hit, punched, spat at etc all the time. We were only allowed to see patients who did not have dementia. I think just a couple of years of that could wear someone down to the point where they hit back.

If you even think about hitting back you're in the wrong job. I got punched, spat on, scratched, head butted, plates chucked at me... all sorts. It never ever once crossed my mind to hit them back, whereas if someone did it to me outside of work it would have. It just wouldn't cross my mind. If you haven't got that frame of mind you shouldn't be a care assistant and you should walk away for your own sanity and for client safety.

I think just a couple of years of that could wear someone down to the point where they hit back.

If that's the case, then they shouldn't be allowed anywhere near a care home.

As I understood from the documentary, it was the rough handling of Joan which was seen to provoke or exacerbate her agitated state, and which led to the scratching. It was observed that another carer with a calmer, more sympathetic attitude had a very different response from Joan. These are people we are talking about. Even people with dementia have a right to be treated compassionately, don't they?

I think all carers should have to serve a probationary period, throughout which they are strictly supervised and monitored to make sure that they are suitable for the role.

I don't work as a carer, it would definitely be the wrong job for me and most people I suspect. I do feel some sympathy for them in that situation though and I think they have every right to refuse to work with such patients. The care homes should simply expel the violent patients and tell their families to look elsewhere. I don't have sympathy for the carers who expect mentally competent old ladies to go in an incontinence pad rather than take the time to take them to the loo. Surely it would take just as long to change the pad and expose them to the risk of developing bedsores if they had to lie in it for too long anyway?

Being subject to violence on the job is not acceptable Tequila. They may be behaving like toddlers but they have the strength of adults. You might have the strength of Job not to retaliate and that's wonderful but it's so easy to see how others can get to that point.

The care homes should simply expel the violent patients and tell their families to look elsewhere
Where do the violent people go then? People are violent because of their conditions. Sometimes they can be the most pleasant person in the world, sometimes they aren't. Even something as simple as a water infection can turn an elderly person violent.

Being subject to violence on the job is not acceptable Tequila. They may be behaving like toddlers but they have the strength of adults
Again, it isn't them, it's their condition. I don't think anyone should be subject to violence but you are supposed to be taught techniques to protect yourself and your client. Sometimes it's completely unavoidable though. I looked after one lady who would scratch and bite when you tried to feed her. She could not control herself though and without us feeding her she would starve. I offered to be the one to feed her everyday because I really wasn't bothered about the scratches. That isn't be being a martyr, that's just me accepting that she needed a bit more support that some people wouldn't be willing to offer and that's understandable.

I started the job as a 17 year old. If me, at 17, can have enough compassion to not even think about hurting these people than anyone should be able to. If not, again I repeat, they should not be in the job and should leave. It's not the right job for everyone, it takes a certain sort of person.

Once you understand the person, their illness or condition, you learn to look past their physical actions.

Yy Mimi, I've lost count of the number of times I was slapped/kicked/punched/bitten and had my hair pulled at work! One lady scratched my face so hard she made my eye bleed but nothing was ever documented or reported back to her social worker or family afaik, it was just seen as a hazard of the job! I'm not condoning that evil carer slapping Joan and she was calling her names and making the situation worse from what I could see but carers being assaulted by patients isn't taken seriously enough imo.

Dementia often makes elderly people violent. It made my Aunt violent. She couldn't understand what was happening to her and so would react by spitting and scratching. It wasnt her fault. And it is common.