to wish all these filthy rich people who claim to know what it's like to live off a pittance, would just fuck the hell off?

[sickofthisshite]

AIBU?

Sarah Ferguson claims a family of 4 can easily live off £80 p/wk to cover all living costs

Boris Johnson has said the poor "should show gratitude to the mega rich"

Iain Duncan Smith says living off £53 is doable for a single person.

According to DC, customers at Waitress are "friendlier & more engaged" than those he has interacted with at other supermarkets. As if people who shop in Sains, Tesco, etc don't have opinion on politics & the state of the country, their lives. Just because someone is inarticulate or introverted does not mean there thoughts & feelings are irrelevant.

The list goes on.

Who the hell are these prats to judge those in the vicious, relentless struggle of poverty.

I hope there perfect little bubble is one day burst.

It makes me sick to my very core.

Just read that article Chaz. Not a nice thing to read.
But the whole time I'm thinking, what could be done? It sounds like if you went it there and tried to help, they would tell you to f* off (at best).
I'm at a loss as to what you could do to combat that, beside targetting the children, I guess, before they're too set in their ways

Why are people waiting for the government to step in and 'create jobs'?

Because it's part of their job.

What we're talking about now is poverty of aspiration. And it's a real problem affecting a sizeable minority of the population.

Where people differ is that some people see it as intentionally lazy and defeatist. Others - and I am one of them - see it as a failing of society. Assuming that wanting to work hard and better yourself is a choice is actually a fallacy IMO.

For all the cocky, ASBO-waving underclass we keep hearing about, the truth is that most of them don't believe that they can work hard and achieve a better life. So why try? Fear of failure accounts for a lot of it. Far better to be good at something you know you can do, even if it's milking the system.

I see it is an almost-inevitable consequence when you grow up in communities in which there is little employment and you see people working very hard for little to no reward. Why would you work a 40-hour a week for a couple of pound more than you could get on benefits? Both incomes suck, but at least on benefits you don't have to be away from your family, worry about childcare, find the travelling costs to work, etc. This applies even more if you're on one of the 0-hour contracts so prevalent in these areas? It's actually an astute move to be on benefits if the alternative is low-paid menial work, and not because benefits are too cushy, but because NMW or low-paid work is completely inadequate to fund a decent standard of living.

The solution is to get a good education and leave of course. But not every child has the intelligence to do that, let alone the home environment that is conducive to doing homework on time and to a good standard, or allowing for adequate sleep, nutrition and stability to learn well at school. And that's before you even deal with the concept that a lot of children born in these communities aren't aware that getting out and having a better life is even an option for them.

And study after study shows that one of the reasons children from better off families do so much better is because money buys opportunities, which broaden horizons and raise ambitions. If your family is struggling to put money on the electric keycard, how are they going to afford for you to join this club or that?

Good post pounding

Pounding
Great post.

That makes lots of sense pounding, I've always been a believer in girls being encouraged to aspire and being shown that it is possible to be more than they think they can but I've never made the link to whole communities. (I am quite that I have not fully realised that tbh).

Poverty of aspiration is a good phrase - how do we begin to tackle it then? Is government engineered 'job creation' the answer, or is that reinforcing the message that your destiny depends on someone else giving it to you - using Merthyr as the example, how do you change the prevalent culture?

Good post, Pounding. There is also huge variability in individual motivations. Our postman has two sons (19 and 17). The 19 year old is at Cambridge. The 17 year old is on benefits. They've had identical home support etc. According to my postman the younger son has a higher IQ than his brother - he apparently "just can't see the point of further study or work".

Yes good post ponding. At my below average comp school, I was astounded that most of the intelligent kids just stopped concentrating at school at around 13. I asked one of them once (who was kind of a friend). He said that he didnt need to study because his brother had a job for him at the mechanics garage. That blew my mind. Another one who had all As at GCSE quite A-levels to work as a cashier at Asda because "she didnt like the other girls at school".

Absolute craziness - and a lack of imagination and aspiration from those kids, and of course their parents

I am a big fan of the ERASMUS scheme that has been a big part of European uni students lives. It would be great if they could do this within a country and for kids at secondary school. For example a 2 week exchange for students between different parts of the country. So kids from Hull could see what a school and family in Surrey was like - and vice versa. It would broaden their horizons

Of course it would need cooperation from parents which is the main problem. The biggest handicap that children have are their own parents

I think government created jobs would be brilliant, it was one of the old labour policies and it works. With more employment people have more money, to put into industry, supporting free market business, we've seen that privatisation doesn't always improve quality. It's more expensive but if you start with things that they are already paying for, it makes more sense to pay individuals to do the job rather than paying agencies to hire people on less than NMW who are probably overworked and suffering the effects of poverty (stress, depression, anxiety, malnutrition, lack of sleep).

On the subject of benefits, DWP have just rang me and said there'd been a problem with my payment so I've actually gone longer without money than I should have. Should be in my bank day apparently. I hope so

Thanks for the compliments.

To my mind education is the only way to tackle it on a community level.

Most families aren't lacking in love, but many of the poorest in problem communities lack the skills they need to pass on to their children if those children are to break out of the cycle of deprivation.

Individuals have to learnt the skills they need to help themselves, including ambition. There are two ways to do that - greater intervention in families from outreach services such as Home Start, or formal education. Probably a mixture of the two would be most effective.

I'd like to see parenting classes freely available and considered as something to be proud of attending rather than an admission of poor parenting that needs improving. I'd like to see free clubs and societies for children encompassing a wide range of interests music, sports, IT, chess, drama. I'd like to see school trips abroad being free. I'd like to see free daily homework clubs after school (it would also be taken up by a lot of working parents who struggle to find time to help their DC with homework by the time they get home from work)

Unfortunately, all this requires a huge injection of cash and the only way to achieve that is through taxation.

Personally, I am happy to pay more tax to achieve a fairer society with greater equality of opportunity and therefore better social mobility, but I am aware that this puts me in a minority.

Sorry about the rogue T on the end of learn

Pounding, the things you mentioned for school clubs and activities we have at our local comp. It is pure luck that we are near that one as we move a lot for work, but it seems so far to be a really good school.

They have after school sports and lunchtime sports, chess etc and an after school homework session. The kids very much encouraged to take responsibility for themselves too (e.g. every term rather than parents evening they have 1to1 teacher and pupil meeting between form tutor and pupil).

This is an ordinary comp in an ordinary area, not an affluent area but not a deprived area. How can some schools make that happen yet others can't?

I am not particularly asking anybody that, just wondering aloud. How do you start to fix things?

A lot of schools seem to have the clubs but they are limited. For example, free music lessons actually means free lessons and an instrument for one term only.

Also, a lot is dependent on the independent wealth of the school as achieved by the PTA for example. Lots of trips are funded by PTA funds and it stands to reason that in a deprived area there simply won't be the same amount of funds available. I'd rather see funding allocated fairly to all schools centrally.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-27225323

Healthy diet beyond the reach of many financially.

Pounding that's a brilliant post.

I was brought up with poverty of aspiration.

Me at 13/14 I want to be a journalist.
DM What for.

Me at 15 I want to go to university to get the qualifications I need for this career.
DM What for You can come and work in the poultry factory with me. Whats wrong with a job in a nursing home or a shop

It was the same stock answer when I wanted a night out with friends What for What for What for.

What you say about PTA contributions is very true, Pounding.

My SIL complains because the PTA, of which she's a member, has to buy ipads for the primary school because they 'don't have enough.' It's an affluent area. It makes me feel ill to think that could possibly be considered an issue when plenty of schools in the same city don't have bloody weather-tight
classrooms.

All my nieces and nephews go to state schools but half of them have better facilities, better trips, better access to loads of beneficial things because the PTA mums and dads are well off. I don't know what the solution is but that shouldn't happen in a just society.