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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

The death penalty?

237 replies

WaywardOn3 · 29/04/2014 08:48

Ok so I was reading this article about a man sentenced to death taking half an hour to die. The state have upped the dose to try to prevent it happening again.

While I'm against having a death penalty his lawyers comments bugged me as him potentially suffering for up to half an hour before death breached his human rights. What about the young pregnant woman's human rights to not be raped and murdered? She must surely have suffered far longer than half an hour and in actual pain/fear for herself and her child not assumed and unconfirmed pain.

AIBU to not care that he may have suffered ever so slightly in his last unconscious half hour?

OP posts:
ArmyDad · 30/04/2014 18:07

Thanks for that insight into the leagal system. I was suggesting that perhaps the death penalty might be put to good use upon them. I highly doubt they are troubled by guilt.

pebblyshit · 30/04/2014 18:15

we don't keep Huntley and Brady alive because of what killing them would do to them. We keep them alive because of what killing them would do to us.

YoureBeingASillyBilly · 30/04/2014 18:21

Tbf- you didnt actually suggest anything armydad

dawndonnaagain · 30/04/2014 18:39

1)It's a legal system.
2)You can (highly) doubt all you like, it's still a legal system without a death penalty.
3) They are both in hospitals, as opposed to prisons, rather suggests illness, doesn't it.

Fluffy40 · 30/04/2014 18:45

If anyone wants to help these people there is a charity called Human Writes...... Definitely not an easy subject

Lilka · 30/04/2014 18:50

I hate the death penalty. No way would I be having the government charging me more taxes so they could kill people, whoever they are (and some would be innocent of course). Make no mistake, the death penalty would cost a lot more money.

When it comes to the US...aside from the incredibly obvious execution of the innocent, clearly the murderers family are also innocent victims just like the murder victims family are innocent. Do you really think the murderers family deserve to see their child/sister/brother etc die, any more than the victims family deserved it? What the hell did the murderers family do wrong? I saw the family on 'Life and death row', and I heard the mother screaming in anguish when she realised her sons murder was going ahead, and it chilled me to the bone and made me sob. That poor innocent woman. The next victim of state sanctionned murder

Also, a black person is 3 times more likely to get the death penalty than a white person committing the same crime. Prosecutors are also much more likely to seek the death penalty if the victim was white. For women, lesbians are also more likely to get the death penalty than a heterosexual woman.

Obviously, giving racism and homophobia such a great vehicle within the system, is very equitable and reflects so well on society Hmm

dolphinsandwhales · 30/04/2014 18:52

Yanbu. I feel sorry for the murdered woman, her unborn baby and her family and friends who will have to live with the pain of her loss for the rest of their lives.

VampyreofTimeandMemory · 30/04/2014 18:58

for god's sake, if you oppose the death penalty, don't do so because it's 'barbaric'. WHY do you care if this guy suffered while he died?

Lilka · 30/04/2014 19:01

I care because I have the ability to feel empathy

It's a good thing to have, I must say

Lilka · 30/04/2014 19:05

Also - my caring, is not under my conscious control. I don't choose to care, I just do. Nor can I turn it off and stop caring

Funnily enough I manage to care about the victim, their family, the murderer, their family and a bunch of other people all at the same time

gordyslovesheep · 30/04/2014 19:06

because I am human, I don't believe justice should be vengeful, people might be innocent, because it doesn't undo the crime

VampyreofTimeandMemory · 30/04/2014 19:06

for a monster who raped and murdered an innocent woman? fucked up.

VampyreofTimeandMemory · 30/04/2014 19:07

I don't reckon you'd be that 'empathetic' if this woman was a loved one of yours.

VampyreofTimeandMemory · 30/04/2014 19:08

I'm not talking about people who might be innocent, at the moment I am referring to THIS case.

SuburbanRhonda · 30/04/2014 19:12

vampyre, there's no getting away from it, it is barbaric.

It is also disproportionately applied to black defendants when the victim is white; it discriminates against poor people who cannot afford to pay for their own lawyer (one defendant was represented in court by a law student who had never been in court before, another by an attorney who fell asleep in court); it is applied to those who committed a crime while a minor; it is applied to mentally ill defendants.

I cannot comprehend how anyone would not be horrified by this.

VampyreofTimeandMemory · 30/04/2014 19:15

I am horrified by that. what I'm saying is I am NOT horrified that this man suffered terribly and I can't believe anyone else is. is it sympathy? if not sympathy, then what?

gordyslovesheep · 30/04/2014 19:15

people who can't see past the gory details of a crime to find more understanding - the ones who hang around courts kicking prison vans and baying for blood - they want justice to act like they do - violently and without compassion or care

Lilka · 30/04/2014 19:15

And i don't think you'd be so unempathetic if the person the state was murdering was your beloved child

One of my relatives (a cousin) was murdered many years ago. It was horrible. What makes you think I want or ever wanted the murderer to be killed? I never wanted that. I wanted them to be go to prison and stay there for a very long time. I know the pain of losing a relative, even though we weren't super close. I would not want the murderers family to feel that pain.

I don't think, by the way, that being related to a murder victim gives me any more right than anyone else to say whether or not the death penalty is appropriate in our society

Everyone might be innocent, we don't have a system capable of providing 100% proof

scarlettsmummy2 · 30/04/2014 19:17

Haven't read all the posts, but would recommend watching 'The Life of David Gale'. Gives a good insight into why I believe the death penalty is wrong.

Lilka · 30/04/2014 19:17

Although I'm personally certain that the person arrested for killing my cousin WAS the right person, on a society-wide, country wide level, we don't have the a system capable of seperating the guilty from the innocent with certainty

VampyreofTimeandMemory · 30/04/2014 19:20

if anyone hurt my child like this man hurt this pregnant woman, I'd want to kill them myself. I don't think I'm the only person who feels this way.

The fact that criminals like this have probably experienced extremely abusive and difficult childhoods and probably have multitudes of very grim issues is awful, of course. But, as I said, many people have suffered, most don't rape and murder anyone.

YoureBeingASillyBilly · 30/04/2014 19:22

Like lilka i had a cousin who was murdered a few years ago. No doubt about who did it, he was caught/witnessed and plead guilty. I want that person to serve a life sentence (he wont) but i do not want that person murdered also, and certainly dont wish a half hour of torture on them when they do die.

Lilka · 30/04/2014 19:23

Yes, you'd want to. I'm sure I'd also want to do that

But this is about whether the state should be able to kill them. I think not, and caring about the murderer themself (while I do have some empathy for suffering on death row) is not at the top of my (long) list of reasons why the death penalty is terrible

TequilaMockingbirdy · 30/04/2014 19:23

If the person who killed my dad could have death penalty, I'd be quite happy.

VampyreofTimeandMemory · 30/04/2014 19:24

well, you are a stronger person than I am.

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