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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

The death penalty?

237 replies

WaywardOn3 · 29/04/2014 08:48

Ok so I was reading this article about a man sentenced to death taking half an hour to die. The state have upped the dose to try to prevent it happening again.

While I'm against having a death penalty his lawyers comments bugged me as him potentially suffering for up to half an hour before death breached his human rights. What about the young pregnant woman's human rights to not be raped and murdered? She must surely have suffered far longer than half an hour and in actual pain/fear for herself and her child not assumed and unconfirmed pain.

AIBU to not care that he may have suffered ever so slightly in his last unconscious half hour?

OP posts:
Nancy66 · 29/04/2014 13:37

ok, so legal costs incurred in fighting/pushing a death sentence. that makes sense as it can take years.

Thurlow · 29/04/2014 13:38

It does in the States, nancy. An Economist article just this week says:

In Maryland, for example, it cost three times more—until last year, when the state abolished capital punishment. Governor Martin O’Malley cited the cost as one reason for pressing for abolition.

Or this article from 2013.

The cost mainly comes from all the re-trials and appeals necessary.

gordyslovesheep · 29/04/2014 13:38

and most murders are not the work of monstrous serial killers - I think there is way to much credence given to CSI and Criminal Minds and other such TV stuff - it skews the real life mundane facts

Forensics don't equal proof

most murders are not premeditated

Very few killers are 'evil' (evil is not a fact it's a concept)

It's a reflection on our society how we react to serious crime - if killing people is wrong then it is wrong for every one

OnlyLovers · 29/04/2014 13:41

gordys, I completely agree.

Very few killers are 'evil' (evil is not a fact it's a concept) is a particularly good point, one that I was wondering if I could try to articulate, but you've done it so much better than I could. Grin

VampyreofTimeandMemory · 29/04/2014 13:42

I've not seen any of those shows as it happens. I do believe in this case that the murderer is what I would call 'evil' and thank god killers like this are relatively rare.

I do agree that miscarriages of justice are a good reason for not having the death penalty.

Thurlow · 29/04/2014 13:48

You never know who can be rehabilitated. Look at Stanley Williams. He lost his freedom and nearly all the rights that the rest of us take for granted. He published and advocated from prison and arguably did good.

It was fair, right and just that he lost his freedom - but despite all that, he still had something to offer society.

VampyreofTimeandMemory · 29/04/2014 13:54

True thurlow I just think the motives behind his crimes and those behind the subject of the OP are crucially different, which I realise doesn't make the consequences any less devastating just that I think different 'types' of killer can be rehabilitated more/less successfully.

phalanges · 29/04/2014 13:59

FreudiansSlipper, 14 Days in May had such a profound effect on me as a teenager, I have never forgotten it. Everyone should watch it.

PrincessBabyCat · 29/04/2014 13:59

Arguably though, the racial conflict surrounding why the Crips were even started in the first place makes Stanely Williams crime in part a crime of circumstance more than anything else. Doesn't excuse it though.

TereseaGreen · 29/04/2014 14:00

Capital punishment a purging exercise, we hope by eliminating these individuals we will be able to purge society of its rotten inhabitants.

Does capital punishment deter criminals? I wouldn't have thought so.
No one sets about a committing a crime without considering the consequences. They have to decide whether or not the potential success of their crime is more valuable to them than being held accountable for their actions and punished according to the law. Crime still exists because people still weigh up these consequences and still have the bravado that they will not be caught or if they are, that the retribution will still not outweigh the "success" of the crime IFKYIM.

There are many worse ways to punish someone than slipping into the peaceful nothingness of death, I simply hope that for these most heinous of individuals their days are filled with nothing but misery and shame whilst they reflect on the hideousness of their actions.

Thurlow · 29/04/2014 14:10

I simply hope that for these most heinous of individuals their days are filled with nothing but misery and shame whilst they reflect on the hideousness of their actions.

So well put.

On man on the recent documentaries awaiting execution describe himself as being seen as an "unregenerable speck of cancer that needs to be excised from humanity".

That's how capital punishment seems to me. It's not there as a deterrent. It's there are retribution.

frostyfingers · 29/04/2014 17:17

A good book to read is The Innocent Man - non fiction - by John Grisham about someone on death row in the early 80's. Another good reason for not having the death penalty IMO.

gotnotimeforthat · 29/04/2014 17:21

YABU

the death penalty doesn't just affect the criminal you know. im sure the crowd of family members weeping by the viewing window cared an awful lot about his suffering.

i watched a documentary the other day about the death penalty. it was sickening.

midnightagents · 29/04/2014 17:23

Yabu. Death penalty does not = safer society. The more barbaric the state are the more barbaric the society, so it's in everyone's interests to observe human rights.

Nancy66 · 29/04/2014 17:26

14 Days in May is an incredible film. You can watch the whole thing on Youtube now. The prison warden featured died recently - he was so convinced that he'd sent an innocent man to his death that he left his job and became an anti death penalty campaigner

Territt16 · 29/04/2014 17:30

If people are really worried about the killier being in pain then surly just forget about all the drugs and use decapitation? Quick and easy

MollyHooper · 29/04/2014 18:36

14 Days in May for anyone who wants to watch it, it really is worth a look.

FreudiansSlipper · 29/04/2014 19:41

thank you for linking 14 days in May I really think everyone should watch this

phalanges it had a profound effect on me too not many documentaries have had such an impact. our teacher at school had told us to watch it (I think it was only shown once on tv) we talked about it for weeks after

phalanges · 29/04/2014 20:27

I remember watching it in my bedroom and then going downstairs in tears to my parents who had also watched it and were crying too.

Since then I have always been a huge, huge fan of Clive Stafford Smith and the work he has done with Reprieve.

FreudiansSlipper · 29/04/2014 20:29

me too, my granddad had been watching it and I could tell he had been crying (would never cry in front of me)

it really has stayed with me :(

smellysammy · 29/04/2014 21:00

Much preferred the electric chair, tbh.

Dawndonnaagain · 29/04/2014 21:09

I see UKIP are here again.

smellysammy · 29/04/2014 21:19

Nowt wrong with UKIP. They will be getting my vote on 22nd May.

bumbleymummy · 29/04/2014 21:22

Yabu. I don't agree with the death penalty either. I'm more of a 'life imprisonment and doing something constructive to help society' type of person.

FreudiansSlipper · 29/04/2014 21:23

well UKIP are one more down again

once again a candidate has had to resign due to racist remarks made openly

they seem to attract very stupid people