To be worried about my DS's pre school?

[Mrssmith9]

My DS isn't a typical toddler, he is 2 and a half; the HV is keeping an eye on him at the moment but he can be quite challenging at times.

What I mean by this is that he will repeat everything all day; a word out of a book, numbers or just a random word that he likes the sound of.

He will repeat his play routine also so if he wants to read a book and then count to 10 he will do this morning until night and he will get distressed if you try to play something else. At the park he will have his routine, where he runs, what he plays on and he will repeat this until we leave.

He is not communicating yet and cannot do many things for himself.

He started pre school a couple of months ago and he attends two days a week.

I have noticed a few things which concern me and I'll list them below...

When we arrive the pre school staff do not greet DS but they pick up the other children and show them how excited they are to see them, they will only greet DS if I happen to catch their eye as I am walking in.

I had to stay for half an hour and list all of the things that DS may need help with and whilst I was there they were taking the register. They called DS to sit on the mat and he went over but had a toy in his hand, they took it off of him and told him to sit down. They were going through the names and when it came to my DS they repeated 'good morning DS' about 10 times getting louder each time they said it. DS can be very withdrawn and shy in front of people and they knew this as I told them everything I had discussed with the HV before he attended. DS sat with his head down and eventually the staff tutted and carried on with the register.

When I came to pick DS up, again he has a routine. He sees me says 'Mummy' and then goes and fetches 2 numbers to show me. The other children who were staying later were playing with toys and DS walked over to pick up the numbers he wanted to show me. A member of staff snatched the numbers off of him, bent over him and made the 'cut throat' sign and said 'finished' in a menacing way. DS then tried to hold her hands and jump up and down to play and she pulled them away, she was not aware that I was watching as I was collecting his extra pair of shoes.

As I was leaving another member of staff came out from the toilet area and said to another member of staff 'DS is sitting on the potty' (he is still in nappies and no where near ready to potty train yet) to which she replied 'bless'. I found this quite unusual too.

He is very excluded and all of the other children ignore him when we are lining up to go in whilst they play together, DS has tried to join in but they make no room for him.

I feel so sorry for DS and we are keeping an eye on him.

I formed the staff about DS straight away and they said that it was fine.

I just think that DS is being excluded. Maybe the staff get fed up of repeating themselves I'm not sure but I think they are not treating DS the same as the other children.

I'd speak to the manager and if it doesn't improve pronto, I'd escalate it to the head office.

I'd take him straight out of there. That sounds awful for him.

The staff sound aggressive and unkind.

The only thing I wouldn't be concerned about is him sitting on the potty. I think it's ok for children to sit on the potty the odd time even before they are ready to train

Yes move him pronto. It doesn't sound like they like him or care for him properly.
Nursery staff shouldnt single out children to ignore or be nasty to, they should make extra special effort with children who need more help.
Remind them of this when you remove him.

Thank you for your replies.

I am getting more nervous leaving him there and DS seems to be withdrawn when we are in the car coming home which is so unlike him , it's worrying me.

I don't mind that he was sitting on the potty, he does at home and I want to associate sitting on the potty as a positive thing to do, but the staff were clearly mocking him for doing so and that's why I included that point.

YANBU.

I agree with the other posters.

I think it's easy to feel that all nurseries/pre-schools are much of a muchness, but they are definitely not. When you see a good one, you will realise that you don't have to put up with this.

I look back to the rubbish care DS1 had, having seen great nurseries since, and wish I had taken him out when I felt uneasy. Go with your gut instinct.

I would take him out of there asap. It sounds horrible. Also with all of the issues you mentioned I would be doing more than keeping an eye. I'd be asking for a paed referral. If he does have special needs of any sort best get them identified before school. With DD it took a year from first concerns to diagnosis day.

I agree with some of the other posters- this doesn't sound like the best environment for your ds. I wonder if he would be better off with a child minder, where he could get more 1-1 attention, and the cm could develop more of a personal relationship with your ds? Maybe at the preschool he is getting a bit lost and overlooked?

The bless thing wouldn't worry me I don't think.

But the repeatedly asking a child to answer them who they know doesn't communicate and then tutting shows either a lack of compassion or experience, either way it's not a good environment for a child.

The cut throat action would cause me to complain long and hard until some type of disciplinary action was taken

My child wouldn't be going back and I would contact ofsted

Oh boy. The other points are concerning. I'm not convinced by the potty one. That could be genuine, it can be sweet when they do that?

I do agree that nurseries are very different. I've seen good and bad and it's shocking how different they are. I will say trust your gut. Don't apologise for doing so.

I'm very sorry.

It doesn't sound ideal tbh... The throat cutting sign would massively concern me. It sounds a bit like they're not able (or willing) to manage with a child who does not fit the norm. Have you got any other Childcare options? You may find a Montessori nursery more open minded.

If all else fails I know of this amazing special needs nanny looking for work in london...

This has really upset me - I would hate to think what your child has to put up with. Please complain and remove him.

I think this is particularly striking a nerve for me as my son is at a pre school he loves and we are moving him in September to a new one ( due in part to cost but also as new nursery part of primary school we would like him to attend - basically we are moving from private to state sector) and am worried the new place will not be as good for him - you are trusting your child with these people FFS I would not tolerate any such crap!

I agree w the poster who said it's easy to fall into the trap of assuming all nurseries are like that.

This sounds particularly horrid.

You should trust your instincts. Do you work? Do you need to find an alternative placement before pulling him out? If at all possible I would just never leave him there again.

I fell into the thinking all nurseries are like that trap - back when my dd1 was 10 months old I briefly went back to work and put her in a nursery. There was low level neglect (that's a strong word - they just weren't kind or nurturing) and I ended up leaving work and being a sahm as I thought that was just what nurseries were.
(I may out myself here...) a couple of months ago that nursery got shut down and the reasons were the sort of things I was so concerned about. But I had just assumed that sort of thing was what happens at nurseries.

Actually a good nursery is kind nurturing and doesn't make your child insular and clingy.

just the thing with the register would mean I would have serious concerns. I wouldn't leave him there, poor little lad.

Agree with other posters I would remove him and look elsewhere or even look into putting him with a child minder he might benefit more within a smaller setting. Sure start usually have a list of recommended child minders ones they know from child minding network.

Sorry to hear your DS is having a tough time - trust your instincts and take him out. Also, I think that given you have some very tangible concerns about your son, your HV should refer him on to see a paediatrician.

I would agree with all the others. I may be biased but I would definitely look at childminders. And also be seeking whatever referrals you think necessary. There are plenty of toddlers who repeat things, have obsessions. This in itself is not necessarily a big deal. However from what you have written here you clearly have concerns.

Even my first not-so-great childminder would have been much better than what you describe and my current childminder is amazing.

When my eldest first went into childcare I would never have picked nursery. He was always sensitive - to noises, busy places, different textures,mess etc. A smaller homelike setting was a much better choice. He is now 4 and splits time between a small charity pre school and a childminder and I know he is getting well prepared for school in September. My youngest actually would have been fine anywhere - much more your typical adventurous, fearless toddler. Different strokes for different folks and some of our little ones need a slightly different approach than others.

Good luck xxx

Get him out of there ASAP and report to Ofsted, they need a proper telling off if that's how they're acting.

I would consider moving him. The incident at register time, not greeting and the pick up time incident would leave me with a lot of reservations. The potty training bless bit wouldn't bother me at all.

It sounds like the staff aren't used to working with children with autism.

Agree with those saying to take him out and send him elsewhere. They sound as if they are doing nothing to try and understand/make him feel comfortable and actually the way they are behaving towards him is likely to make the difficulties he's having worse. The register thing in particular sounds horrendous, and more bullying than nurturing. I pulled my eldest dc out of a nursery I wasn't happy with, and he really thrived in the new one we moved him to so don't be afraid to look around and find somewhere that suits him.

I would move him. It's not the right environment for him as you have now seen on a number of occasions. And I also think you should be pushing hard for a referral to a developmental pead. Please don't be fobbed off by people 'keeping an eye on things' - it means they are doing nothing. Sitting and waiting for things to get better on their own.

Sorry, I'm being brusque because I'm tired, but you are obviously very tuned in to your boy - your instincts are telling you soemthing isn't right. Now it may be a little thing. It may be a bigger thing. It may go away on its own, as DS matures. Or, you can push for the right support and action to help your DS thrive now. Part of that involves being in a better and more supportive nursery environment.

I'm aware this isn't a very pleasant post to read - sorry. But your hv is giving you the runaround. You aren't the first and you won't be the last and you are your child's only advocate. You need to start pushing I'm afraid.

Poor you and poor DS. Disgrace.

I'd get hold of their complaints procedure and make merry with it and consider raising the issue with Ofsted.

I hope you get the support you need.

Move him - go and see a lot of settings and ask them how they would support your son with his development. Ask them about their experience of working with children who need additional support. Ask to see their SENCO. In my experience, going to a nursery where your child isn't their first experience of that type of child saves a lot of heartache.

I would also ask for the referral sooner rather than later too.

Thank you for your replies, I am relieved to know that it wasn't just in my head and that I am not overreacting.

I will tell the manager that he will not be attending anymore next time he is in, it is a relief thinking about him not having to be there anymore as he wasn't himself when I picked him up. I will also ask about the procedures to make a formal complaint.

I have been worried about his development, do I have to go through the HV to get a paediatric referral? And will they deem it necessary for DS? I'm just scared for him.

Thank you for your replies, it has been awful having to watch him endure these situations and I will definitely look into CM as that sounds great for DS rather than feeling like an outsider in a preschool. I'm sure there are lovely ones who would welcome him with open arms but after this I think that my guard will be up more for him.

Move him.

I had DD1 at a nursery and a preschool and both felt "wrong" no tangible reasons just the odd word/niggle.

moved to her current one and the difference is huge. She's happier, they are amazing. Their is one AS boy there and the way they manage him is lovely, you can tell even at the door pick up they adapt to the type of day he has had and he is very included.

You will find a better place and will be able to tell the difference straight away.