AIBU to be absolutely shocked at my friend attitude towards her landlord and her not want to move out ???

[SpikeHairandFab]

Hi, I just need to get some perception ,sorry ,I am afraid it is going to be long
My friend is buying house, she has wasted almost 5 months waiting for her dream house but she didn't get it at the end ( due to some massive muck up from vendor side, not her fault) . Now she is in process to buy a new house. Everything is o.k with this one ,she will move in at the end of June.
The problem is her landlord has served her a notice to vacate the house . It was served in Jan ,and her last day should be 24th of May. But she saying she will not move out, she will stay 5-6 weeks longer, even though her landlord sold the house he is living in now, and he want to move to the house she is renting from him.
I tried to explain to her that she really need to move out,as it is not fair on her LL , that he has given her enough time to sort something out ,and that the Law is on his side , but she saying she has nowhere to go, and she can't rent anything short term ,as it is going to be expensive. She also saying that he will have to get her to court , and that will buy her around month or so, she thinks there will be no consequence at all , she will go when she is ready , and she doesn't give a sh@t about her LL. Also she said she will stop paying him rent from 25th May , as he getting her to court !!!! I this point my jaw just dropped to the floor
I know she has 3 kids and therefore a lots of stuff , but it seems like she is trying to get advantage (not paying rent) out of this whole nasty situation.
I am really trying hard not to be judgy ,but I can't help, she is in very tough situation but I think she should at least try to do something.

Is she right that there will not be any consequence at all? She said she was reading some forum and that she got that info out from it.

She is my very good friend and even though I don't like what she's doing ,I really need to help her(not that she asked for any help). I have offered her to borrow some money , but now I am more concerned about what she is getting herself and her family in to by not moving out.
Will she get any record ?
Any advice would be highly appreciate .
Thank you for reading

The non payment of rent is not going to end well. It's that part of it that is the most wrong from my perspective.

The not moving out is still wrong, but it's commonplace in long housing chains. If a hitch in a buying chain occurs, there is commonly some negotiation. Personally, I couldnt afford to live in a hotel for 2 months between exchange and completion so if this happened to me I'd be staying put and delaying the chain.

"But the tenant would be wise to try and avoid a CCJ at all costs as this can affect so many other aspects of their life in the future."

Losing a civil case is not a CCJ. A CCJ is when you lose the case and then fail to pay within 30 days.

A small claim, as a solvent defendant, isn't problematic at all.

Second time about 10 of my bro's mates went round and moved her out whilst she was out. Binbags I the front garden. Police were called who basically laughed at the tenant

Mmm, who did you say was a scummy cunt?

That is of course illegal too.

OP your friend is totally out of order if she doesn't pay the rent for the last 1-2 months, but tbh, in her position I wouldn;t move until the new house was ready either.

Bogeyface is right too, if this tenant wasn't buying and couldn't get another private let, the LL would have to go through the entire legal process to remove her as she wouldn't be eligible for help re social housing if he didn't.

I was just trying to say that any landlord who assumes that a tenant will in fact leave on the given date, especially knowing the LA rules on homelessness and the nature of house buying/selling, is either naive or badly advised.

What should happen and what actually happens are often 2 different things, and if I was a LL I would be assuming worst case scenario when making plans.

There was a thread on here recently where a tenant had been served notice, but the LA said that her new home wouldnt be ready for a few days after that. She literally had no where to go and no money for a B&B and storage, she too had children. What else could she do but stay? She was led to believe that the date on the eviction notice had been given as a completion date, although iirc that was never confirmed. Her still being there could have bought the whole sale to a stop because there would not be vacant possession, so the LL was foolish to do that (if he did).

I am not saying that what the friend is suggesting is right (certainly not right to withold the rent), but as a LL I would have to consider the fact that this might happen when making arrangements. If he wanted to be sure she would be out by a certain date then he should have served notice and made sure she had left before selling his other house.

As I say, I am not saying it is right but the LL should have anticipated that this could happen and plan accordingly.

I rented 5 times before buying my own place. Each time, I either gave or was given notice, and if the dates weren't perfect in accordance with my contract (e.g. I moved in on the 1st and had to be out by the 31st), I spoke to the landlord and we came to a compromise. Sometimes this meant I went earlier, sometimes later, or sometimes I had to find a solution with my new place.

It never ever occurred to me to just stay there, fuck the landlord over and not pay rent into the bargain.

This thread has me quite worried as DH is up for a secondment necessitating a move across country for a year. No way would we sell our lovely house, but we can't afford to pay rent on a new place and our mortgage, so we will have to rent this place out. The way I see it is, we are still paying the mortgage, but the rent we get will cover our rent in the temporary place. We would literally only rent our house out for one year on the understanding that was when we would return.

I don't see this as a business. And we would be fucked entirely if at the end of the year, we were planning to come home, and some cunt tenant decided not to move out and not to pay rent into the bargain.

No idea what to do or how to protect ourselves now if we have to move.

I must be naive but I'm shocked that there are people who think this behaviour is ok.

Agapanthers might be different in England but in Scotland defender in any Court action loses if they don't turn up. Non-appearance even in for a small debt will get a degree against the defender. If she pays up before decree is taken it won't show but if she only pays afterwards the decree will show.

Agapanthers might be different in England but in Scotland defender in any Court action loses if they don't turn up. Non-appearance even in for a small debt will get a degree against the defender. If she pays up before decree is taken it won't show but if she only pays afterwards the decree will show.

slthy As a landlord I would say it is naive just to assume all will be fine. If your lease is set up properly as an AST in England or an SAT in Scotland then you will get the house back. But if a tenant doesn't move out on the due date you need a court decree to remove the tenant. You will get your decrees if lease is an AST or SAT.

You might be able to get insurance.

As both a landlord and a tenant, YANBU to be shocked. Your friend's attitude is appalling. I wouldn't treat my landlord like this and I wouldn't expect my tenants to treat me like this in turn. The landlord served adequate notice and it's not his fault that your friend's plans changed.

What would she have done if she'd been selling and there was a delay with her next house purchase? I'm sure she'd have been able to find temporary accommodation quickly enough to stop her sale falling through and a chain breaking down.

I'd find it very hard to be friends with someone who I knew to behave like this.

Your friend's a greedy twat op.

Slithytove - that is pretty much my situation, though for a three year period. We have insurance against damage caused by tenants and rent protection cover that kicks in after a month of no payment. Alan Boswell is the name of the company we use and they're excellent.

Absolutely agree - since when did landlords, accidental or otherwise, suddenly become responsible for housing people who can't/won't pay their own way? Any money DH and I lose means less to spend on our family/children - and who'd rather give their kids less due to a tenant who suddenly decides to try it on?

Before I bought my first house I had to leave my rented flat (moved into a very pokey studio flat with a fold down bed to save up the deposit) 3 weeks before completion useless solicitor - whole 'nother story so I found someone to take a short term lodger and paid for storage for my stuff.

I still let that house out (kept it as insurance for if the relationship with Dh didn't work out - 14 years ago) though I think I made £200 profit on it for last year, as it's older and I need to do several repairs a year. This year will be new windows and door.

I've had good tenants and bad, and terrible. My current tenant thought it more important to pay for a school trip and uniform for her DC than to pay her rent. She called my early on a Monday morning I assume to catch me unaware to tell me this. After all I had to understand that it was expensive as they go to a good out-of-town school as you wouldn't want to send your child to a local school.

The school I had just got back from dropping DD1 off at...

And yet again I find myself agreeing with Brian...

Oh yes I have to say I'd find it hard to be friends with someone like this. No honour and too grabby. Not what I like in a friend!

"I don't see this as a business."

You are discussing handing ownership of your most valuable possession to someone else. It most definitely IS a business and I would advise you to view it as such. For example, if you genuinely can't afford to cover the mortgage, what would you do if the boiler blew up? Or if a tenant simply didn't pay for 6 months? If your DH is up for secondment, what's the relocation package like?

A small claim, as a solvent defendant, isn't problematic at all.

Not a problem but it could be expensive if the LL claims for hotel/rental accommodation and possibly storage costs, etc. as a result of not being able to move into his own property.

"What would she have done if she'd been selling and there was a delay with her next house purchase? I'm sure she'd have been able to find temporary accommodation quickly enough to stop her sale falling through and a chain breaking down."

Or possibly what lots of chains do: compromise all round.

I remember the solicitor we used when buying our house advised us that if the sale took longer than planned and we had handed in our notice we should remove to move out of rented accommodation. We would never have done it though.

I can cover household repairs same as if we were living here. That hasn't changed. And it isn't a business, there is no goal of profit etc.

It is a necessity if we have to temporarily move. I don't know many people who can rent and pay a mortgage.

Relocation tbc at second interview.

We would of course get all the insurances we could, however no matter what protection we give ourselves, it would not make it right for a tenant to behave in this way. Especially if we rented it out saying we would be back in a year.

I'm hoping we don't have to go.

I am going to have to let out my flat, and am worried about becoming a LL

Better do my homework!

Quite an eye opener that I will be scum just for being a LL, and will need to bear in mind I might be treated as such.

I got in to a huge argument on a landlord thread with a poster who wanted the AST/SAT system abolished and who thought landlords should never have the right to end a tenancy except for rent arrears. She was talking nonsense but on one point I did agree.

Tbh if not getting a few months'rent and/or not being able to get the property back on the exact date you expected to can't be factored in, then maybe being a landlord isn't for you.

It is said that any one who can't afford the losses should not be a Lloyds' name. It's not as extreme as that but if 2 or 3 months' non payment is more than you can carry then you need to think very carefully if it's for you.

Slithytove - people like the OP's friend (and those on this thread who only think the problem is if you'll get away with it or not) are thankfully rare.

However, a good way to avoid people like this is to reference like mad, insist on large deposits, credit check and if need be, be hard about who you'll let have the house.

This is, sadly, why a lot of LL won't take HB claimants, or single parent families, or anyone self employed, it's shit that the few people who take the piss really cause massive problems for everyone else.

"And it isn't a business, there is no goal of profit etc."

What is it then? I'm not being intentionally difficult. You will be leaving the property you own to the care of another person. Under the terms of a contract, that person has to pay you a large sum of money. How is that not a business transaction?

it is a business.

It is an investment, and a business. I will rent out the flat to get money coming in.

It is funny how in the UK, big successful businessmen (and women) are revered, and small time scramblers like me, looking for a small return on investment, are seen as capitalist scum.

Agree that it is risky business to get into if money is really tight. This year the outside of the building (block of flats) needs work, and all flat owners need to cough up £2,000

Owning a property comes at a cost (repairs, risks)

I am surprised at the popularity of buy to let really.

A business transaction perhaps, but it's not a business. Not registered, not run as a business.

And I won't get any money out of it, our rent in the temp place will be more than our mortgage.

It's a position we would be being forced into. However even if we were doing it for profit, that doesn't mean we should be open to be treated like shit or have any contracts broken.