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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to be absolutely shocked at my friend attitude towards her landlord and her not want to move out ???

257 replies

SpikeHairandFab · 28/04/2014 13:57

Hi, I just need to get some perception ,sorry ,I am afraid it is going to be long
My friend is buying house, she has wasted almost 5 months waiting for her dream house but she didn't get it at the end ( due to some massive muck up from vendor side, not her fault) . Now she is in process to buy a new house. Everything is o.k with this one ,she will move in at the end of June.
The problem is her landlord has served her a notice to vacate the house . It was served in Jan ,and her last day should be 24th of May. But she saying she will not move out, she will stay 5-6 weeks longer, even though her landlord sold the house he is living in now, and he want to move to the house she is renting from him.
I tried to explain to her that she really need to move out,as it is not fair on her LL , that he has given her enough time to sort something out ,and that the Law is on his side , but she saying she has nowhere to go, and she can't rent anything short term ,as it is going to be expensive. She also saying that he will have to get her to court , and that will buy her around month or so, she thinks there will be no consequence at all , she will go when she is ready , and she doesn't give a sh@t about her LL. Also she said she will stop paying him rent from 25th May , as he getting her to court !!!! I this point my jaw just dropped to the floor
I know she has 3 kids and therefore a lots of stuff , but it seems like she is trying to get advantage (not paying rent) out of this whole nasty situation.
I am really trying hard not to be judgy ,but I can't help, she is in very tough situation but I think she should at least try to do something.

Is she right that there will not be any consequence at all? She said she was reading some forum and that she got that info out from it.

She is my very good friend and even though I don't like what she's doing ,I really need to help her(not that she asked for any help). I have offered her to borrow some money , but now I am more concerned about what she is getting herself and her family in to by not moving out.
Will she get any record ?
Any advice would be highly appreciate .
Thank you for reading

OP posts:
ballinacup · 28/04/2014 16:27

Drank I think most people on the thread that agree with her staying on also think she should pay rent.

writtenguarantee · 28/04/2014 16:35

Yes, to repossess his property he needs a possession order. By the time he has one, she'll be gone. As long as she pays the rent, which she should, I see no issue and, in her position would do exactly the same.

No one is saying that it won't work, but you are not supposed to leave the day the bailiffs show up. that's literally the court showing up and moving your stuff out on the lawn. You are supposed to leave when the notice says, or fight it. And, from what other people have said, it will backfire in the form of legal and financial consequences later.

The person is just taking advantage of the fact that legal things take a little while, and planning to do so just so they aren't put out a bit, and forcing someone else to likely be in the same position. if I had to guess (again, not a solicitor) that's neither the intent nor the spirit of these laws. It's to prevent landlords from unlawfully evicting tenants, which is obviously not the case here. if the OP's friend wanted to stay until a certain date there are legal means of doing so - sign a damn lease!

I don't condone what holiday did and think the tenant should have sued, but tenants like the OP's friend are precisely why landlords pull such heavy handed moves.

WooWooOwl · 28/04/2014 16:35

People like your friend are scum.

She will end up with a CCJ against her and that will affect her credit rating. The consequences of her immorality won't be as great on her as they will be on her landlord though.

What a bitch she is!

Bogeyface · 28/04/2014 16:43

Its difficult because yes he has given her a lot of notice but it doesnt alter the fact if she wasnt buying she wouldnt be housed by the council until she is homeless and that means staying until the bailiffs go in. As a LL he should be aware of that (or his management co should warn him of it) and factor it into his plans.

He needs this house back because he has sold his own home, fine. But he is actually lucky that the tenant is buying and has somewhere to go within a few weeks of the date, if she hadnt then he could be looking at 2 or 3 months. Seems to me that he has been badly advised, or doesnt understand how tenancies work

In her position I think I would probably do that same, but I would of course pay rent.

Gubbins · 28/04/2014 16:44

Speaking as a sometime tenant, your friend is acting like a cunt. As are some of the more extreme landlord bashers on here.

We were in a similar situation before moving into our current home and would never have dreamed of acting in such a morally reprehensible fashion. We left at the end of the notice period and stayed half the time with friends five miles away and the other half with family 70 miles away. We have two children, one of whom was school age at the time. We managed, without acting like arseholes or bringing tenants into disrepute. It was difficult, but the situation was not of the landlord's making, so why would we have made them suffer.

writtenguarantee · 28/04/2014 16:51

Bogeyface what's wrong with a short term tenancy? Put your stuff in storage and get a short term tenancy. Possible? obviously. expensive? probably more than not doing it, but the OP's friend is in a position to buy a house, so is obviously not so poor that this is likely impossible. Ideal? no, but that's life.

AWombWithoutARoof · 28/04/2014 16:52

Surely the point of a contract with agreed notice terms in it is so that either side can terminate it in accordance with those terms. I'm flabbergasted that some people think it's OK for her to overstay without paying.

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 28/04/2014 17:28

She should check if a CCJ would have a negative effect on her mortgage as well. She needs to look at the terms carefully especially if court action is started for recovery of the unpaid rent prior to completion.

WooWooOwl · 28/04/2014 17:31

Bogey, it is not 'lucky' that the tenant is buying a home at all, not everyone goes from private rental to a council house.

A landlord should not have to automatically assume that their tenants will need to be evicted by bailiffs, plenty of people have morals and enough sense of responsibility that that shouldn't have to happen.

MaryWestmacott · 28/04/2014 17:37

Bogey - why would the LL not assume that when he gave notice in January, the tenant might just go rent a different property? The way most people do when their LL gives notice, they just go find another property, rent that and move. Annoying, certainly, but rarely have I heard of someone overstaying in a flat IRL.

AreWeThereYeti · 28/04/2014 17:40

Your friend sounds awful Confused.

If I were you I wouldn't lend her any money - she doesn't sound like a trustworthy person.

I would struggle to be friends with someone like that.

Nanny0gg · 28/04/2014 17:52

I find the whole hatred of landlords on MN very strange. I could say it's akin to shoplifting your groceries because you haven't got the £££s, but I'd be shouted down by someone saying "wah wah, but it's their home". Yes, and? I pay for mine, why the fuck shouldn't you pay for yours? Why should private landlords have to foot the bill for scum who just effectively decide to squat? I don't expect Aldi to give me my groceries when I'm a bit skint.

Sums it up perfectly imo.

Fairenuff · 28/04/2014 17:58

If I was the LL I would move into the house on the day she was supposed to vacate. I would move all my belongings in and start living there.

If she didn't move out, she would have to live with me and put up with all my annoying little quirks Grin

Flossyfloof · 28/04/2014 18:01

Why do you want to help your friend? I would be more inclined to help the LL by letting him know what she is planning.

Solaia · 28/04/2014 18:05

So she is effectively making the LL homeless on the day she is supposed to move out and he's supposed to move in? And people are OK with this? What if he has children to house? Even if he doesn't, the OP's friend's behaviour is vile and selfish. It is HER problem that her tenancy agreement ending and her new house beginning don't align, not her LL's.

We were in this position last year, our LL gave us notice (only two months, not four) and our new tenancy didn't start in time. Yes, it's hard but it didn't cross my mind for a second that I would simply stay on in the property that I knew my LL was waiting to move back into. I'm amazed anyone would think that acceptable behaviour.

YouAreMyFavouriteWasteOfTime · 28/04/2014 18:08

Landlords lose out when people but dont have an asset - what's the point of taking someone to court when they have no money? you friend does have money. This is not going to work for her unless she is very clever

Fairenuff · 28/04/2014 18:13

If it's the small claims court it only costs £80 and the tenant will have to pay that. They will have to pay any outstanding rent too.

If the LL is made homeless and has to rent somewhere else or stay in a hotel, he might be able to claim the costs of that back from the tenant. If she has no money, the court can order so much per week for the however many years it takes to pay off the debt. Friend is being very silly.

Caitlin17 · 28/04/2014 18:15

There's little in that time scale landlord can do as getting it through the courts will take longer than that. She's in cloud cuckoo land however if she thinks she'll get off without paying rent and possibly damages.

If the landlord were to raise court action an unimplemented court decree will screw up her credit rating.

Serenitysutton · 28/04/2014 18:15

We can't say she'll have legal penalties or a CCJ. That only happens if the LL takes her to court. In many cases the LL will just be so relieved to have the house back they'll call it quits. A court case is just more stress for what is likely to be a relatively small amount of money.

It's a risk, but that's what people weigh up when they do something like this- whether it's worth the risk. That's why landlords send the boys round- they weigh up with the risk of prosecution against the risk of the tenant telling no one and them getting their house back. It's all about what the individuals involved chose to do.

MaryWestmacott · 28/04/2014 18:24

Actually op, I've rethought about my earlier advise, you should still distance yourself from her (for the reason that people who are prepared to screw others over if it suits them if they feel they can get away with it rarely behave with morals with dealings with everyone else), but I'd tell her why, tell her not just that she might not get away with it, but that you think what's she's doing to the landlord is wrong and makes her look terrible.

If you don't, if you only tell her why it might come back to bite her, then if/when the landlord does turn up and scare her, she might rock up on your doorstep expecting you to bail her out of the mess she's created.

ICanSeeTheSun · 28/04/2014 18:28

The friend could put her belongings in storage, there are many places that have storage facilities.

Then get a find a short lease. Many letting agents do this.

Caitlin17 · 28/04/2014 18:35

I've never had problems with tenants and have never had to resort to court. But if she were my tenant I would raise an action for the unpaid rent and my costs simply to get an undischarged decree (what you've been calling a CCJ) against her name. That might sound vindictive but with it she'll start running up against "computer says no" on many applications.The fact she is at a new address will also impact on her credit score(new addresses will lower the score) anyone checking her husband's scorecwill see he is at an address where some one has a decree against them.

On the landlord's side it is very unlikely I would have committed to selling the house I was in until I'd got this house back, but that is just me being cautious.

Caitlin17 · 28/04/2014 18:38

And to be absolutely clear "sending the boys round" is as unacceptable as her behaviour but 2 wrongs don't make a right.

Fairenuff · 28/04/2014 18:44

A court case is just more stress for what is likely to be a relatively small amount of money.

Actually, it's not stressful at all, it's a really simple form to fill out. As I said it costs just £80 to process, which the tenant will have to pay.

It's worth it if the tenant owes £500 or something. The court will rule in favour of the LL if the tenant defaults on rent. It can all be done online.

It's a cheap and easy way for the LL to get money owed. But the tenant would be wise to try and avoid a CCJ at all costs as this can affect so many other aspects of their life in the future.

AgaPanthers · 28/04/2014 18:48

"And to be absolutely clear "sending the boys round" is as unacceptable as her behaviour"

Well no. 'Sending the boys round' is criminal. Overstaying your tenancy is not. So not equally unacceptable.

"But if she were my tenant I would raise an action for the unpaid rent and my costs simply to get an undischarged decree (what you've been calling a CCJ) against her name. "

That's not correct. You need to file proceedings in court, you need to get the case allocated, the tenant responds, you need to win the final proceedings, and then the CCJ only comes IF you win and IF the tenant doesn't pay the judgement.