Circumcision: A Social Status in the UK ?

[Amazonia]

Curiously in the UK, circumcision is now a matter of social class. While the "ordinary" folks rarely circumcise, circumcision is prevalent in the upper class as well as in the Royal family.

In answer to your cheap shot there UncleT, I will continue to shame posters who try to equate FGM with male circumcision and to use terms for either one that seek to equate them. (Altered, butchered, mutilated, etc).

I doubt anyone with even half a brain would 'equate' the two. Knowing that one is worse than the other doesn't justify the other at all though. Neither side of this argument should be hijacking the issue of FGM.

Yes, it is very obvious that those seeking to equate the two are not firing on all cylinders.

It is the intactivist lobby here that introduced the equating. Go back and read the thread if you think this is not the case.

Saying 'butchered' (because that's how I actually feel about that being done) is somehow equating to FGM? Now you're just making stuff up.

Now, moving on from FGM , I think we have all heard of toilet paper and wipes. Have you heard of soap and water, math? They clean intact penises very adequately.

You have not heard of toilet paper? Flushable wipes?

Am I hallucinating math or did you actually say that? You agree that boys/men can use these things to keep themselves clean without cutting off their foreskins?

No Baron - it's a 'cheap shot' to point that out, apparently.

Flushable wipes? Toilet paper? Yes, yes, I have heard of those. We even have some in our house.

I still don't get your point though.

Men and women can use toilet paper and/or flushable wipes. Men and women can wash their bits... I'm still struggling to understand your point.

Yes it is equating the two.

You are entitled to your feelings whatever they may be, but you are not entitled to your own set of facts.

The fact is, circumcision is not butchering, and calling it butchering is an insult to the millions of butchered women and girls who suffer immeasurably as a result of FGM.

Lol @ 'am I hallucinating?'

If you are suggesting that men wipe under their foreskins every time they pee I think you may need to conduct some sort of informal poll of the men you know and ask yourself a question or two about the lack of toilet paper in the vicinity of urinals.

It's clearly not equating the two, unless of course you're on crack or don't speak English.

More to the point, falsely suggesting that being against arbitrary circumcision means you don't take FGM seriously is insulting and, frankly, ultra-hypocritically sexist. You're making stuff up and claiming that which was neither said nor intended.

So we are left with the scenario that I believe PigletJohn described of men paying attention to the cleanliness of the penis once every 24 hours, while women whose homes and designated public toilets feature toilet paper and maybe flushable wipes are presumably paying attention to the hygiene of their external genitals every time they use the loo.

Or maybe I am about to be accused of assuming too much?

I agree. Male circumcision and FGM are two very different things, and putting them in the same category is very wrong.

Now, would you please address my earlier post. I'll c and p if for you "

*Mathanxiety-even by your questionable statistics, the "benefits" of circumcision are minimal. But you are now saying that it makes a "big difference" to sexual health. Evidence please?

And you also seem to be saying that all of our uncircumcised partners and sons are smelly- is that what you think?

And you still haven't explained why a woman's "unaltered" (irony) genitalia did not reek of stale urine.......*

Well, guess what, math, sometimes women 'drip dry' as well. Sometimes the ladies run out ot toilet paper.And yes, women can certainly smell of urine.

Fiction is the forte of the anti circ brigade here UncleT. And hyperbole. And immoderate use of metaphor.

And of course cheap arguments that seek to equate FGM with make circumcision.

"PigletJohn described of men paying attention to the cleanliness of the penis once every 24 hours"

No, math.

The idea that people only wash once in 24 hours came from you.

I gather you under the mistaken impression that the foreskin is a sealed container that fills up with urine. If you have ever come across one like that, I have to tell you that it was faulty.

Hmm. Have you considered that maybe chopping bits of male genitalia off with no medical justification is actually very emotive for many men, and that there's a rational basis for that? Try to answer without referring to either FGM or 'lobbies' (I state my feelings and opinion, not the view of any 'lobby' or group).

Mathanxiety you said "If a man is soap and water averse then being circumcised isn't going to make a huge difference to his overall smell, but not being circumcised is going to make a big difference to the smell of his genital area and also to his sexual health."

Utter nonsense. Male circumcision is not standard in western Europe and do you know which are the countries with even lower rates than the UK? Scandinavia- the countries generally acknowledged as having the highest standards of living and health care you'll find anywhere. I very much doubt Scandinavian paternalism (and I mean that in the nicest possible way ) would reject the practice if it were to the benefit of its citizens' health.

ummm... not always a case of religion nor class....btw I'm a bloke.

I was born with part of my foreskin attached to the glans (head? not sure of correct terminology) and it was taken off for purely medical reasons when I was very young. Yes I have the scar to prove it and no, no photos are going to be provided. (joking!)

One time, when a Jewish boy at my school, after swimming lessons, said "hey, you are like me" and wanted to be friends on this basis, unfortunately I didn't have a clue and was a bit off-hand and awkward with him. Although I didn't see his (relevant!), he pointed out that I didn't have a foreskin and the other boys did.
My Mother is/was incredibly uptight about anything remotely regarding sex and could not/would not explain. I thought something was wrong with me. This caused an immense amount of worry and insecurity on my part for many years, which I have since got over.

Later a Doctor took a gander and kindly explained.

Personally speaking I find a circumcised penis more asethically pleasing than one which is not, just IMO!

I find the whole point about hygiene very insulting towards men. As if they are too lazy or stupid to wash themselves.Sexist indeed.

My son is circumcised as his foreskin wasn't completely attached so another medical one. He knows it was done for a medical reason.