To refuse to move to USA with hubby

[CookieTramp]

I don't know what I'm really after here, but please offer your perspective.

We moved to where we are 2 years ago and I love it. Ds1 hs in reception class at school and it's a great school. I have a 4mo baby.

Husband's company wants him in NY and has upped offer to $150,000, and DH says we will be able to save £1000+ a month on that, whereas here we are not able to save. I don't work at the moment, except a little freelance from home.

The main reasons I can't agree are: 1. My mum. She is more my mainstay than DH, really. She has a fantastic bond with DS1 and will have with DS2. We need her and also it will break her heart. We have very little family and my dad died 7 years ago. 2. We will lose the school place and with the squeeze on places could easily get one out of area. 3. I do not know if we really will save what DH says and no clue how to work it out definitively. Relocation package is €5,000, which to me seems like it won't touch the sides what with flights to and fro and furnishing a 4-bed house out there from scratch.

Main issue I suppose is our relationship is not great and DH has never grasped the concept of emotional support. He takes his responsibilities seriously and gives lots of his time to the kids but I don't feel he is really there for me. I'm too scared to leave all my other supports and put myself in a position where he is all I have. We were in Relate last year and DS2 was conceived in fit of optimism thereafter.

So DH is desperate to go, as the job there is beyond his wildest dreams. I would hate to hold him back from that. One possibility is he goes for a year on his own (he needs at least the first two big projects) but how could I do that to DS1, even if I could do it to DH?!

It seems impossible whichever way I turn and we need to decide soon. Hubby keeps saying about financial gain (but is it really?!) and I will make new friends but the biggest loss is my mum and the school place. dH says would be for a couple of years.

Over to you. I am soooo stressed and distressed.

[indigo18]

Yep. take note OP; container paid both ways! (ours was, but I never thought to ask - brain a bit fuddled as had new-born twins when we moved.) I did miss friends, but made lots of new ones and it is so much easier to keep in touch these days.

[indigo18]

Also factor in the positive effect on DH's career and salary prospects when you return.... although, this being mumsnet, folks will doubtless tell you that you should be thinking of your own career and salary!

[pinkdelight]

"If only to not get into custody/habitual residence tangles down the line I would be inclined to stay. Sorry."

This. Big time. There's lots of great advice on the thread about the details of moving to the US, but the danger is getting caught up in this and going ahead with the move when the starkest point in your post was that your relationship with DH isn't good and has come close to breaking down already. A move like this would test a rock solid relationship but in your case, with his specific issue being lack of support for you, it's surely fatal. No doubt he's excited about the job, but it's only a job. If he's such hot property, he'll have other opportunities. Right now your family comes first, and that doesn't mean you sucking it up and making the move work. It means staying put and building on what you've got here. Which includes a 4mo, so that alone is reason enough for no big changes right now.

I wish you all the best and hope he understands that this great chance for him is actually nothing in comparison to his future family happiness.

[Gen35]

Yes it's great for his career, but awful for your job prospects - no family support, terrible family leave policies and work culture so even if you do get work that covers the cost of daycare (unlikely) you'll struggle to hold the job down.

[schokolade]

Hi CookieTramp. As someone who has moved all over the world (including USA), I wouldn't even entertain going under those circumstances.

The thing that sticks out from your posts is that going will benefit DH but leave you in a very vulnerable position - not able to work (spouse visa?), unable to leave with your DC if DH disagrees, no support network, etc. It will be very isolating.

Possibly DH going alone could work out if you are prepared to visit. DH and I have done this before, and it is difficult but doable. Also, if it exists as an option - even if not taken up - then you don't get so much later resentment at you for 'blocking' the opportunity.

[LayMeDown]

No, don't go. The package isn't good enough. More importantly you run. Huge risk of not being able to bring your kids back to the UK if the marriage breaks down.

[Thomyorke]

If you do not want to go make that clear, if the reason becomes about the package you run the risk of your DH negotiating a better package and you still not wanting to go and him feeling tricked. If the package was double would your other reasons disappear. I agree without a decent package and salary it is not worth considering but do not build your argument around this if your finally decision is not about money.

[Burren]

Your husband is being naive, and being blinded by his desire to go, hasn't done his research. The offer isn't a particularly good salary, relocation costs are paltry, not enough information on other issues, like crucial medical cover. He's deluding himself about the potential savings. I think you'd be crazy to go in the circumstances, especially if your marriage is already under strain.

[indigo18]

Where are you in the UK? School issues vary around the country but if in SE you will want to consider them. I would not let the issue of a 4m baby daunt you; babies are very portable and adaptable and you are (potentially) heading to a country with good health provision - not a developing country.
Would you give it a try, say a year, keeping your UK house so you can return?

[indigo18]

Burren - the OP has said there is medical cover, etc, in a later post. I think mumsnet should consider highlighting posts when OP returns to a thread, so they can be picked out easily. Or can we already do this???

[EmpressOfJurisfiction]

Indigo, if you click on Customise you'll see the option for highlighting the OP's posts.

[GwenStacy]

Indigo - assuming you're talking about highlighting the OP's posts, this can be done in 'customise', above the active threads link :)

[singaporeswing]

MorrisZapp I'm half of a young couple living in Singapore and a lot of my friends here are saving pretty much three quarters of what they earn with the aim of returning home after a couple of years and buying a house.

DP has worked abroad for the past 6 years in a very well-paying job with all rent paid for, food allowance, transportation allowance etc. Everything we earn is disposable.

We are both in oil and gas, so I reckon we will head to ME once married to really boost our earnings.

I'd say most people's motivations for moving abroad are mainly related to money and saving, with the aim to return better off.

There's no real point otherwise.

[somuchtosortout]

If it is a fixed term contract then it would be a shame to let him miss out on his dream job.

I've just started a thread of self pity talking about how home-sick I am feeling. However if my dh was offered a transfer to NY I would go in a shot.

BUT - our relationship is very strong. Even on our worst posting, far away from home and family, we never turned on each other and have at least always been good company for each other.

Without that there is no way that I would have put up with the crappy bits of moving overseas. No way at all. So, please - do not go.
Your DC will be fine, NY is close enough to have an almost commuter-ish family life. You get to go there in school holidays and enjoy the best bits. He can come and visit during school term.

So I'd say let him go and agree on trying the commuter family life for a bit. Then, if you like it there and it doesn't seem so bad, you can choose to join him.

But under no circumstances give up the good school places and the nice routine you have at the moment.

We are abroad now and every time I drop my daughter off at her new school I mourn the nice little simple life we had in the UK.

[juneau]

My parents made this move on a crap marriage and it split them up. Only go abroad if you're rock solid. It's hard at times, and you need to rely on each other

This^

OP my DH and I moved to the US for six years and lived in NJ. PM me if you want specifics, but given your rocky relationship with your DH and your emotional dependence on your DM, I wouldn't do it. The US is very different from here (as I expect you know if you've already spent 9 weeks there), and making friends and settling in and feeling happy and at home there took me about five years. By the time we left it felt like 'home', but I'm still unbelievably happy to be back in the UK. Stand your ground. Oh and I wouldn't send him over there for a year if your marriage is not that great now - you'll end up splitting up, for sure.

[pupsiecola]

I would worry for your relationship. An overseas move can put a huge strain on a relationship and that's if both of you are fully up for it. You mention you've spent time having some Relate counselling and that rang alarm bells for me.

We did a year overseas in 2012/13 and we were both fully up for it. But it didn't work out due to school issues. I would say that we had/have a very strong relationship but at times the stress took us to the very edge. (Thankfully back on track now and don't regret it, but we were in a good place going into it!).

It sounds like a good opportunity although I agree that the package isn't enough.

Such a tough one. You would miss your support network for sure and I wonder if you would (understandably) resent your DH.

Good luck. Oh, and do post on the Living Overseas board for info on costs of living in NY etc.

[dixiechick1975]

I'd just add to check out schools very carefully.

Your ds Is 4 and in free 9-3 reception here. In us he won't be in school for at least another year or two. Kindergarten isn't always full time either. So you will need to pay for preschool.

Plus logistics of looking after a 4yr old and baby as opposed to having 9-3 with just the baby in uk.

You may also need two cars. If you are in the suburbs you will need a car for grocery shopping and baby groups etc

[andsmile]

No dont go - Im going off your first post only..all your guts, heart an head are saying no.

Loss of support
Relationship not great re emotional support
The financial gains are not great really

[tb]

In 1983, I got all the costs of buying a new house, full removal costs, and £2,000 towards replacing curtains etc.

[pupsiecola]

By the way, when we moved to the Far East we didn't have much of a relocation package because DH changed companies and got the job out there with this new employer, so we weren't sent there if that makes sense. But what we did was put together a comprehensive spreadsheet detailing everything such as:-

Rent
Utilities (gas, electricity, air con servicing)
Food
School fees
Holidays/Travel
Gym membership
Entertainment
Savings

We literally included everything and their first offer was well below. However, they really wanted DH and they got special permission from the board in the US to pay over and above his grade level. So we went, cos it was worthwhile. But it so easily couldn't have been had we not gone through what we needed to this level of detail.

Point being a relo lump sum may not be forthcoming, but make sure you get a salary high enough to pay for this stuff anyway.

Thankfully when we returned they gave us a very generous relo package because he was already employed by them this time so it was a proper relo. Very lucky there as it was our decision to come back to the UK, sadly.

[BuildersBilly]

I agree with everyone saying don't go. We did a similar thing and it was really hard. We did save some money but we were in the Midwest where everything is much cheaper and the company paid our rent, shipping of all our stuff, all utility bills, 2 x flights a year home, tax advice, healthcare for the whole family, visa costs, repatriation PLUS £9k one-off just for incidentals like a new TV etc.

Money aside though the main issue was that we found it really tough socially and culturally. We are fairly sociable people and we struggled to make friends. The upshot of this is that it is you, your dh and kids all the time. Even with the most solid relationship in the world this is tough and, if things aren't great it is likely to be very isolating and lonely for you while he is out doing his dream job and you are stuck at home with the kids and no mates.

[sugarandspite]

Is there any room for negotiating with his company?

If they are very keen to have him out there, rather than spending large amounts on relocating all of you (and by late amounts, I don't mean the pretty paltry €5k they are offering, I mean the amount that you would have calculated based on advice here and elsewhere to be fair and reasonable) would they fly him out and pay for his accommodation out there for say a month at a time? Also with a salary increase for him to cover the additional household support / childcare etc that you will need while he is away.

It might give you a nice compromise between stay and go, allow him the opportunity to do some of the work he wants to whilst not uprooting the family. And a bit more money too.

I think some negotiating might be worth a try, especially if they really want him. After all the worst they can do is say no and if they do, they may well come back with an increased salary and relocation anyway.