to feel uncomfortable around this man

[YesAnastasia]

A Dad of a little boy at my DS's nursery is too over familiar. I don't like it at all but I don't know if I'm being too over protective.

He talks to DS instead of me, high fives him, tries to make him hold his sons hand, shouts for him to run with him, touches his face & pokes his nose. I hate it. My DS hardly even responds but it doesn't seem to bother him, he just carries on.

One day he came later than me & I waited outside until he came out because I felt weird about it. He came out & had not kidnapped my child...

My DH hates it & wants me to say something but I have no idea what to say. Incidentally, he didn't speak to me or DS when DH was there.

He might just be a bit odd...

[MistressDeeCee]

Trust your own instinct. If you feel uncomfortable then you know exactly why. This man sounds very overbearing, Id find it hard to be faced with him every day and would just have to say something. Not everyone can and must cope with someone who is over-familiar, it can be intimidating and Ive known people to be like this even when they know you are uncomfortable; they just do it even more. I note he ignored you both when your DH was there and I feel thats part of the 'intimidation' aimed at you specifically. IMO you should definetely say something whether you choose to do so lightheartedly or firmly. Dont second-guess yourself and live with uncomfortable feelings just to spare another's feelings when that person is invading yours, or your DS's, space.

[YouAreMyFavouriteWasteOfTime]

buffy also I don't like the 'trust your instinct' stuff. it says there is something definitively wrong with this man - however I don't think there is anything work with personally not particularly liking an individual.

[AskBasil]

"I still find this thread bonkers"

Because women are talking about how a woman's boundaries should be respected?

It doesn't matter why she's uncomfortable about his behaviour, the fact is she is and he knows she is because he doesn't do it when her DH isn't there.

So what if he thinks she's odd? Why should she show any more concern about what may think of her when he shows no concern at all about what she actually thinks of him?

Women are always being told to see things from the other person's POV, however unreasonable that other POV may be. Fuck that.

[AskBasil]

Yes that's how I see it as well Buffy.

The OP feels uncomfortable and a load of people at the beginning of the thread exhorted her to put aside her instincts because the assumption is, the man's feelings are more important than her's.

Why on earth should she? What harm is done, if she avoids him or never talks to him again? Why should she ignore her feelings, so that he can carry on feeling comfortable by making her feel uncomfortable? Will he lose his job if he is no longer allowed to poke her son's face? Will his name be in the paper if he is not allowed to get the child to leave his mother's side without consulting the mother? Will his life in any way be adversely affected? And yet YesAnastasia's life will be improved by acting on her instincts because she won't be feeling uncomfortable any more.

Women are so effectively socialised to dismiss their own and other women's feelings and put men's feelings first, that on a primarily female site on t'interweb, a woman is told that she has no right to have boundaries or feel uncomfortable when a man oversteps those boundaries and she's obviously a bit unhinged to have those feelings in the first place. In that context, while I take the point of the posters who say actually, it can be another way of saying "trust your prejudices", women cannot be told to trust their instincts enough because the other message - put your feelings aside and put men's feelings first - is just much stronger. It needs a huge counter balance IMO.

[MistressDeeCee]

The underlying feeling I get about this sort of thing, and also some parts of this thread is, "the unsaid" - that when a woman says a man makes her uncomfortable then, she is only feeling that way because he is a man, and is therefore a bit paranoid. God forbid she is uncomfortable with said man being near her child - she's automatically assuming man = paedo and is after her child; again, she is being paranoid.

The OP is not being unreasonable. This man makes her uncomfortable, she doesn't like his level of interaction with her son, and he is taking the piss by ignoring them when her DH is present, and acting up when he is not. Thats enough to in itself to be upsetting. I wouldn't put up with that bullshit at all and don't see the benefit in advising OP to do so. For what? So that this man can continue to feel comfortable making her uncomfortable? What a message...almost sounds as if women have to tiptoe carefully around men just to prove they're not being the 'silly little woman'.

[zippey]

I dont know how this became a feminist debate, but I dont think it is. The OP has changed her mind from initially saying her son doesnt mind, to that he does mind now.

Here is what the OP said "talks to DS instead of me, high fives him, tries to make him hold his sons hand, shouts for him to run with him, touches his face & pokes his nose. I hate it. My DS hardly even responds but it doesn't seem to bother him, he just carries on"

It might be just me but it just seems that the father of a boy is trying to encourage his son to become friends with this other boy, and the three of them are just all "kids playing together" . In my limited experience, children are usually quick to point out when they dont like something - the man just seems to be trying to encourage the friendship.

My suggestion would be to arrange a playdate with said father and boy and see how you get on.

[sisterbrute]

I think that the OP meant that it doesn't bother the man that her son doesn't even respond to his nonsense. And a playdate? FFS

[RiverTam]

I wouldn't like it if anyone, man or woman, did this to DD. And guess what? In nearly 4 and a half years of her being on this planet, and 2 and a half being at nursery, no-one, male or female, ever has. Which, to me, would make it odd. And DD would hate it, she is quite reserved and shy, and if I thought someone wasn't picking up on her very obvious signals of not liking it, I would be very unimpressed. She is not a touchy-feely person with anyone bar me, DH and maybe her best friend.

I don't think it matters if the OP's DS isn't bothered by it - he doesn't respond to it so why carry on? It's like this person (let's take gender out of it) is desperate for some kind of a response from him, which is very odd - not sinister, paedophile-round-every-corner odd - just odd.

[YouAreMyFavouriteWasteOfTime]

i do agree that women's views are often overlooked - esp. by men. but then no one is suggesting that women cannot be wrong - and I think on this occasion the OP is very likely to be misunderstanding.

her op is about the man and his son - then the thread seems to forget his son and just focus on the father. I doubt many poster pictures 4 people in their mind - the op, her son, the man and his son. I think they just saw 3 the women, her son and the man.

[IfNotNowThenWhen]

There is an interesting book by Macolm Gladwell called "Blink", which is kind of about instinct.
Anyhoo.
OP, YANBU (although waiting outside the nursery is a bit OTT!)
I think there is quite the opposite of "paedo paranoia" on MN. There are always cries of "what if it is a woman!" and " "why do you expect a man to be a paedo just because he likes children!"
It's a bit silly to cry sexism, when, in reality the people on sex offender registers DO tend to be men. And also a bit silly to suggest that, just because you don't like a man you don't know prodding your child and running off with him, you don't understand that men can like children in an innocent way.
I am sure there are other fathers dropping off at the nursery, and OP has no feelings about them.
There are lots of dads dropping off/picking up at ds's school. Some of them chat to DS, and some of them are cute with him, ruffle his hair, chase him and his friends. It doesn't bother me at all, but if I got that "wrong" feeling about someone, I would accept it, and let it be known I didn't like it.
It is so true that women and children are expected all the time to accept behaviour that makes them uncomfortable. Why should they?

[AskBasil]

The OP clarified that she meant that it didn't seem to bother the man, not her DS.

"I think on this occasion the OP is very likely to be misunderstanding."

a) What is she misunderstanding about the man's failure to pick up established social cues from her?
b) Why does it matter if she is misunderstanding? What is the consequence for the man if she decides to avoid him from now on, versus the consequence for her of continuing to accept the man's ignoring of her boundaries?

[AskBasil]

Also for whoever asked why it's become a feminist debate, I don't think it has, but the sheer normality of women's feelings and boundaries being overrode by men and them being expected to grin and bear it and being labelled a bitch if they challenge it, is an established feminist issue.

[YouAreMyFavouriteWasteOfTime]

the OP does not refer to the man's child once after the OP.

"he'll run off with my DS when DS knows he should stay by me." isn't he trying to get the OP's son to play with his son?

"He does talk to my child instead of me when my child is there. He does talk to me when our DC aren't there. Why's that inconsistent?" he a trying to get the boys to be friends?

if this thread included references to the man's son - his behaviour would sound much less weird. on this occasions the picture painted in this thread and RL are IMO not the same thing.

[AskBasil]

But so what?

Why does it matter what he is doing? She doesn't like it, she's made it clear that she doesn't like it and the man knows she doesn't like it (because he doesn't do it when her DH is there) so he should stop doing it.

Normal adults know that the way to encourage a friendship between DC's this age, is to be friendly to the adults in charge of those DC's. This bloke doesn't.

Why should anyone give him the benefit of the doubt? He's just an irritating random, why are so many women willing to bend over backwards to see a nice, misunderstood well-meaning man? Why so much investment in him versus the OP?

[greenwinter]

I have lost count of the number of times when women are telling me about something negative or even awful a man did, that they say they were uneasy with him at the beginning, but brushed it aside. Women are taught all of the time to ignore their warning feelings about others.

[YouAreMyFavouriteWasteOfTime]

you ignoring the fact OP describes the events repeatedly without mentioning the man's son - who is why he is in the playground and who his focus is really on in all this. not the OP or her child.

I agree most the time when other feminists call something sexist this time, I don't see it that way.

[RoseRadish]

When the man I know tries to pester my DD, she reacts like the OP's DS - she goes quiet, doesn't engage, turns away, sometimes tries to bury herself in my coat etc. She doesn't scream or complain or object but I can tell the difference between this and when she is engaging happily with welcome attention IYSWIM. She needs me to step in and say "DD doesn't like that". Obviously, as small children are naturally intimidated by adults they don't know well, it's unlikely she would loudly object herself.

It's so annoying when someone is upset by a person being over-familiar or overbearing and they are told "they're just being friendly, don't be so mean". Similar to when people feel controlled and pressured by excessive generosity and they get told off for being ungrateful. These things do exist, they are unpleasant and we don't all have to tolerate them.

[RoseRadish]

Women are taught all of the time to ignore their warning feelings about others. greenwinter I think that's so true. This man I know, when we first met him DP found him really troubling and said afterwards he would not feel easy trusting him. DP saying that made me admit to myself I also instinctively felt uncomfortable. But I had written it off thinking "Oh I can't judge the poor bloke that fast". DP feeling it too made me more accepting of my own feelings. And I'm a rampant feminist, but that hesitancy runs deep.

[PersonOfInterest]

Did someone really suggest arranging a playdate with him????

I thought nothing on here could surprise me...

So lets see, a guy makes me feel uncomfortable, I don't like the way he behaves around my child, he ignores me when my partners there but I'll go ahead and arrange to meet up.

Why would the OP actually do that zippey?

[zippey]

Buffy and AskBasil - you are right, I have misinterperated "him", I thought she meant her son.

Id be interested if the two boys are friendly whilst at nursery together.

I do think its sometimes difficult for dads to try and get playdates for their children. Mums seem to find it easy to ask each other on play dates, whereas there seems to be an issue to ask for a playdate with a man and his child. It just means the man's child misses out. Maybe this dad is just trying too hard.

[YouAreMyFavouriteWasteOfTime]

I don't understand why you're so invested in denying the OP's version of events

she is omitting the man's son from her description.

my investment - my DP (male) works with young children.

[greenwinter]

You wouldn't arrange a playdate with a woman who made you feel uncomfortable, why should you do it because it is a man.