To not accommodate a request by a female Muslim never to be in work "alone" with any male colleague?

[LibertyPrints]

"Sarah" has worked with our company since December. We have 12 staff (some of whom are part time) across 2 sites. All staff work between the 2 sites. They are retail outlets.

Sarah is Muslim and has recently contacted me to ask if I can ensure she is not ever scheduled to be alone with any male colleague at either site stating this is to do with her religious beliefs.

The manager is male and 3 staff are male. Different staff have different skill levels and they are scheduled where they are best utilised on any given day/week and so that all shifts are pretty equally shared out. It is not practical to agree to this.

For clarity I have no issue with making adjustments for her where I can. For example she asked at interview if she could reduce her lunch hour by varying amounts and then take that extra time out when she wanted to pray at varying times of the day. Even though we don't normally allow breaks to be taken in this way I agreed willingly.

I feel really awkward saying no but it's really far from ideal. AIBU to think if she can't expect this from us?

And you aren't going to dismiss her so that is all irrelevant. You are refusing an unworkable flexible working request.

I'm finding this thread increasingly upsetting.

All those that are posting to state: 'do it our way or take the highway' are misleading the OP. Whilst many of us are campaigning for equal rights and pay for women, please remember that for some women just the right to work is a fight in itself.

It took a World War for womenfolk as a whole to leave the home and get into a workplace. Women just like us, doing the same work as men, albeit for much reduced pay. It took until the 1970s for us to get equal pay. It remains an issue to this day to get enforcement on equal pay and conditions.

For women to state they find this other woman's position 'offensive' overlooks what other women in the UK in yonderyear had to counteract to get us our rights. Please bear that it mind.

That is why I have suggested a practical solution not a moral opinion.

But remember this: the easiest way for one to get their rights, is to the have the financial freedom to enforce them.

Whilst I understand the difficulties faced by the OP as the employer (I too was an employer), it is worthwhile retaining some compassion for the woman who is being financially controlled.

After all, on MN, a woman who is being controlled does find a sympathetic audience normally.

Do what every other company does, time keeping is normally their reason for dismissal during probation or absence. Just start to get really anal with it if you do want to dismiss her. Its sad but true.

Just have the meeting, say no politely and wait it out. Its your best option. If she does claim discrimination she will have a hard time proving it especially as she already has her extra breaks.

And anyway, why do you feel awkward saying 'no', she's the one trying to move the posts, just tell her it's not what you need and not what you employed her for in the first place.
If she can't do the job then you can't employ her.

She can be given notice. She can't claim unfair dismissal but she might look to claim she has been discriminated against under one of the protected cases.

if she were to do that OP would argue there was no discrimination, her request simply could not be accommodated within the business frame work and it was unfair to other employees.Whether she or OP would win, I don't know. I'm not an employment lawyer and I genuinely think consulting a specialist in that field will be money well spent before making a decision.

I am actually quite devout muslim. If she feels that strongly she shouldn't work in the company. IF a muslim works in any environment that they feel is incompatible with their religion they should leave.

terrortree she's not asking for equal rights she's asking for special rights which apply only to her.

And yes, I do find it offensive for a woman to say men are basically all rapists.

Terrortree, you are assuming this woman is being controlled. I am assuming she wants to work in the department store and not the small store. Both of us are probably wrong.

I agree with most of what you say TerrorTree but the woman can't change the terms of her employment just because she wants to.
Not fair on anyone else who works there.

In OP's shoes, beeny (which I'm not) I'd try to discuss with her imam in case this is not her personal choice, but her husband trying to restrict her. Of course, if the imam supported the "halvet" interpretation, we'd be no further forward. Chances are he wouldn't, though, and the husband (if he's involved) would have to suck it up.

m.acas.org.uk/media/pdf/m/9/Handling-requests-to-work-flexibly-in-a-reasonable-manner-an-Acas-guide.pdf

This seems applicable to your employee

You can't sit a grown woman down and pry not only in to her religeon but also her personal situation and make sweeping accusations that she may be in physical perril.

No no no! Line well and truly overstepped by a management point of view.

She's an employee not your child or best mate, that could go horribly horribly wrong very very quickly regardless of intention.

To be clear the OP has not said she will be dismissed but her request is likely to be refused.

Following a refusal the employee could however choose to leave but treat it as constructive dismissal as the employer was making working impossible; or stay but take a case to a tribunal that the refusal is unreasonable and she has been discriminated against. I don't know how a tribunal would deal with this.

Hmm. I take your point, Boudica

I wouldn't be so crass as to actually suggest that was the case, though I admit diplomacy's not my strong point!

My wrist now slapped, I guess it might be wiser to put all discussions in writing (sounds wise anyway) and maybe suggest she checks with her mosque? I know you can't manage another's personal life, much less suggest they don't know their own religion, but am also wary of yielding too quickly to misogynistic principles.

As an employer you have to take everything out of the equation, sex, religion, age, sexuality. You have to view them as a work force. Like robots and you statistically just chose the best robots for things, and if a robot is not fit for purpose then the robot is not part of a viable work force.

It can be very hard sometimes to have to manage people who are individuals in their own right, with their own beliefs, but then strip that all away when making a decision.

Its a mind field :)

Caitlin at no point has the OP, nor I, nor as far Op's employee claimed that the three male employees are rapists. I find your interpretation to my post quite alarming.

Being alone with an unrelated male can be insinuated within some families/partners/husbands (not just Muslims ones) be an issue. Islam does not have the monopoly on controlling women. Go to the relationships topic to find examples to prove my point.

GertieGusset In Chat right now is a topic about how childless staff have to work public holidays to accommodate child-rearing staff. It's an interesting bunfight. One person's situation, is another's infringement of their rights.

Any person can apply to have the terms of the employment changed because they want to. These are called 'requests'. It is up to the employer to grant that request if it can be reasonably accommodated- and if the request may be if benefit to the employer. Reasonable accommodation for SMEs is a very grey area and requires sensible advice not personal opinion based on one world's view. That is why I suggested the OP sought the advice of the Muslim Council (because I've found them very helpful) but also HR Legal advice is also helpful.

Re the branch that is a concession in a larger retail shop, is she requesting that she not work with just one other male member of staff in the concession? Would women working elsewhere on the shop floor for other concessions not be enough to satisfy the requirement? Where does she draw the line about how close to her the other woman has to be to prevent the "alone-ness?"

Looking at it from another angle, is there perhaps a male member of staff making her feel uncomfortable or is difficult to work with? Could you gently probe to see if there is something behind the request?

Nyambu. Ridiculous!

Follow the steps in that acas flexible working leaflet and you won't go far wrong. This thread has become a little dramatic in places.

Best of luck!

It's not as if you can't make 'reasonable adjustments' in as much as trying to accommodate her request though, is it?.

You have 3 male staff members and 9 females. One of your options is a busy dept store.

Keep a paper trail, involve her in the 'this is quite difficult to manage and this is why' side of things, respond to her written request in writing saying 'we will of course make every effort to ensure that this doesn't occur, but cannot guarantee it, unfortunately'.

The onus is then on her to decide whether this is acceptable or not. If no, then you've tried your best so are in the clear, and she has been listened to and valued but has decided for herself that the job is not right for her.

terrortree try looking at it from the male employees'point of view. What is she saying to them beyond I and my religion believe it's not safe for me to be alone in your company.

If she really believes she can never be alone in the workplace there are plenty of retail outlets where this will never be a problem. I don't recall ever seeing a man working in M&S knicker department or Cath Kidston.

And terrortree your point about controlling husbands doesn't stack up. No employee would be taken seriously making such a request just because she has a jealous husband.

This thread seems quite identifiable so if you're concerned about tribunals, I'd think about having it deleted. You might find the Employment or Legal sections can give some pointers.

It may be useful to invest in some employment lawyer expertise - they could write (or review) your flexible working policy and give specific advice on this request.

If the employee asks before that happens , I'd just say something vague about how you're looking into it.

It seems like you've been very accommodating already. I'd be concerned that the other team members may have reduced morale if they see someone apparently not being part of the team, e.g. if one employee is taking breaks during busy times when the other staff members are being more flexible about their breaks, particularly if the employee is relatively unskilled or inexperienced within the team. Realistically from what you've said about several men in the team being most experienced and working most hours, you can't guarantee that she won't be alone with a male team member while deploying skills where they're needed - what if the other females she's on shift with are all on a break / in the back store / need the toilet at the same time? "Err no you'll just have to pee your pants, you can't leave me here alone with him. Oh in fact I'll just leave too, let's hope it doesn't get busy while we're away." You'd be changing every other employee's working conditions as they'd need to consider this situation themselves.

I hope you get it resolved soon.

I do agree with terrortree, absolutely.

When you look at the ACAS guidelines, it is all about doing your best to create a welcoming and supportive working environment for workers who might otherwise be discriminated against. The spirit rather than the letter is the ideal.

However, if there are valid commercial reasons to not be able to accommodate this request, I think it is fine to sensitively explain your position and leave the ball in the employee's court.