To not accommodate a request by a female Muslim never to be in work "alone" with any male colleague?

[LibertyPrints]

"Sarah" has worked with our company since December. We have 12 staff (some of whom are part time) across 2 sites. All staff work between the 2 sites. They are retail outlets.

Sarah is Muslim and has recently contacted me to ask if I can ensure she is not ever scheduled to be alone with any male colleague at either site stating this is to do with her religious beliefs.

The manager is male and 3 staff are male. Different staff have different skill levels and they are scheduled where they are best utilised on any given day/week and so that all shifts are pretty equally shared out. It is not practical to agree to this.

For clarity I have no issue with making adjustments for her where I can. For example she asked at interview if she could reduce her lunch hour by varying amounts and then take that extra time out when she wanted to pray at varying times of the day. Even though we don't normally allow breaks to be taken in this way I agreed willingly.

I feel really awkward saying no but it's really far from ideal. AIBU to think if she can't expect this from us?

It isn't strange, non related males and females aren't supposed to be alone together. Perhaps you could just try and put her on shifts with other females but if it isn't possible put her with a male and just explain to her that due to staff numbers, timetables etc it isn't always going to be possible. Lots of muslims would never make this request so as not to be awkward but its not odd or meant as offensive towards men.

I don't think an chaperone is ideal for health and safety, business protection or insurance purposes. You can't just have some random hanging about all day. She's not employed so if she has a accident then what? Not sure even public liability would cover her fully.
^^ this! YANBU. Someone is employed to do a job, with ( presumably ) reasonable terms and conditions, they don't get to decide afterwards that it doesn't suit to work with / not work with colleagues. End of, in my opinion.

Because of the sector involved the people I employed were about 85% asian, which naturally included many muslims. Even so, I've never yet heard of this being requested and completely agree with those saying it's totally unreasonable and should certainly have been raised at interview

I have, however, known several cases where other "unreasonable" demands were made in the hope of a payout under equality laws; some even went so far as to mention litigation along with the demand. None of the claims succeeded, but of course they still cost a great deal of time and stress in the process

I really do hope this isn't the motivation of your own employee, and agree that you should take proper advice to cover yourself - preferably before responding to the request in any way

She already requested a drop from full time to 3 days per week which I have granted. I don't have an HR dept to deal with it. It's a smallish business. Will certainly contact the Muslim Council though thank you. I am just crossing everything she accepts my explanation and the accompanying polite "no" as I really don't need the hassle of planning the staff schedules round her wishes. She is very nice but the least qualified/experienced member of staff we have and it would be honestly (sadly) better for her to go than to have to try and make this happen.

From the site "Questions In Islam":

"Men or women, all people have right to gain money on the condition that they obey the general principles that the religion tells like; frankness, honesty, trust, truthfulness, abiding by the promise, having commitment to agreements and conditions and not exploiting the other side’s weakness, ignorance and troubles.
From the explanations above we can infer both that women can work and can not work. If she has the conditions she can work, if not she can not work.

One of the fundamental principles for a woman to work is to be careful about her religious coverage of herself and her dignity and gravity mustn’t be underestimated. Also she mustn’t be in the same place with a stranger man alone.
It was told by the Prophet that when a man and a woman are alone, the third one will be the devil. In such a satiation, “halvet” (being alone with the opposite sex at the same place) occurs and it requires punishment for both man and woman like “mehr-i misil” (for man) and ”tâzir” (for woman).
In conclusion, we can say that the woman, who has to work since she is in need, can work in a place where there will be no harm to her dignity and chastity. She can have social relation with the men around with that gravity and dignity. The place lacking these features is not a good place for a woman to work.
It is an obligation for man to work and maintain the family, the woman is supposed to stay home and look after her children. The man has to work and try to meet the needs of his wife. The conditions mentioned above for women who has no such a protector and who is in need and poverty. A woman whose husband doesn’t let her work can not have a right to have a job. She is supposed to live on the money of her husband, or she needs her husband’s permission.
A woman can work at house or working place of a stranger man on the way that Islam required, with several women or in an open place. There is no hindrance in this. But if she stays in a closed place with a stranger “halvet” (explained above) occurs and that is a sin. (El-F?k?h 'ala'l-Mezahip el-Arbaa, v.3 p.125)."

This is obviously from the religious perspective rather that Employment Law in the UK.

But from even a very orthodox perspective, it does not appear that the shop floor constitutes unreasonable proximity, and I very much doubt you have a legal (or even religious) obligation to accede to ths request.

Just say no. I had to go to hr once, 2 female members of staff refused to do personal care for male patients. At one point we had 14 male patients and only 4 female. I was on duty with them and one male staff. Our Pratt of a manager thought this was ok and the lazy female staff actually sat there refusing to help any of the male patients, while me and the male hca were drowning in work.

" One shop is facing a busy shopping street and the other is a concession within a larger retail shop."
Could she be angling to only work within the larger retail shop; because she couldn't be considered to be alone with her male colleague there, with the other workers from the other concessions around?

Can you ring acas and see what they say about the legal side of things?

Also, is the request in writing?

If you check out the acas guide this is covered under section 2.7 it is a legitimate request and to refuse it without being able to prove a legitimate business need would be classed as indirect discrimination. From what you have said proving a business need won't be an issue for you.

I found similar information in my online searches this morning. She is married and had been for 3 months keen she applied for the (full time) job.

I think FunkyBoldRibena (who's nn I love!) made a good point further upthread about involving her in the feasibility of it, and the possible pitfalls - how would she suggest it was managed in those circumstances etc.

Also speak to the Muslim council as suggested; reasonable adjustments are fine, but you still need to be able to operate the business.

You are a small company and have already made adjustments to be sensitive to her religious requirements. You have to carefully consider if adjustments are possible but if you can evidence that they are not you do not have to comply with her requests. For example if a Jewish person worked for a company with 1000 employees it would be reasonable to arrange rotas, etc., so that person could observe shabbat. If you have few employees then it is probably not possible to make sufficient arrangements for that person to observe shabbat every week. It all hinges on reasonableness.

Keen = before (strange auto correct that one!)

It would be honestly (sadly) better for her to go than to have to try and make this happen

I'm sure that's true; trouble is, your problems really start if she'd rather NOT go, then tries to claim you're forcing her out because of her religion

I see you've already obliged her by changing her working pattern and granting prayer breaks - and now another request has cropped up

As I said, you really do need to take careful advice on this

YANBU. She, and all her co-workers should behave professionally towards each other - their gender should be completely irrelevant.

I would say that if the premises are open to the public, it is strongly arguable that she is never alone with a man, even if the shop is quiet. Perhaps she could just leave the door open if she is bothered? That quote from the Muslim website indicates that it's all right for women to work with men "in an open place".

She is married and had been for 3 months keen she applied for the (full time) job.

wonder if her DH is behind her asking for this arrangement now...

BOF's quote made me think of a different reason for her request. ... “halvet” (being alone with the opposite sex at the same place) occurs and it requires punishment for both man and woman like “mehr-i misil” (for man) and ”tâzir” (for woman).

If my googling is correct, the naughty man can get a fine but the naughty woman gets a beating. Could a male relative be threatening to do her over if she commits "halvet" at work?

I know this doesn't go anywhere to solving your problem, Liberty, but any such possibilities might be best discussed with her & her Imam. Have a word with the Muslem Council - and ACAS! If you can save a woman from a thrashing and keep her in work, all the better :)

xpost, Errol! Suspicious minds, eh.

I really do think that no employer should be required to accomodate an employee's witless fucking superstitions to the detriment of business practices and other staff. (And I would say exactly the same regardless of the specific myth brand eg Christian/Jewish/Wiccan/Santeria/Jedi).

If you have ludicrous superstitions, fuck off out of other people's space with them.

I wondered that too Errol.

The legal helpline said it could be considered indirect discrimination if we said no and she took us to tribunal. Clearly I couldn't afford to let it get that far and would have to back down but I really don't think it fair that I have to make her (new) wishes the priority of the staff schedules :-(

In that case do it but advise all the staff of what's happening and why its being done, pray your male staff dont take offence and hope your female and male staff don't get upset that the business is bending over backwards for someone.

Also be prepared for further religious requests, and now any other (unreasonable) requests from other staff members who will play the "well you did it for her card"

I can honestly say if I was managing her in !y team, I'd say no politely then wait it out.

What Garlic said would make me want to know what was behind the request - in case the woman might become the victim of religiously-inspired DV .

I think you'd have a strong case to say no, tbh. In your situation, it isn't reasonable adjustment.

I have some sympathy, as an atheist, with SGB's view, but you nevertheless have to operate within the law to ensure an environment of equality wherever possible, regardless of your personal beliefs.

I would just get her to put her request in writing. Then in writing respond with your reasons why. Factual. Perhaps with a few sample rotas to show that it isn't possible but of course you will try to limit the times this happens.

How many people are on shift at any one time?

Before giving her the written reply, check it over with acas. At no point repeat that you would prefer it if she left.

(Worked in retail hr before maternity leave fried my brain)