To find natural/attachment parents extremely judgementaland intolerant of other parenting choices?

[firtreepants]

I used to consider myself an attachment parent i.e i breastfed my now 4yo until he was 3.5, i cosleep and babywore. Over the past four years i have joined a few AP groups on facebook and the majority of my friends are AP. I am however, getting increasingly frustrated with the amount of judging that goes on in these groups and in my circle of friends. Judgement of formula feeding, of putting baby in own room to sleep, of using buggies, of controlled crying, of using purees rather than doing baby led weaning. The list goes on. As a result i am now gravitating to my more mainstream friends who, quite frankly, are much more pleasant and just nicer to be around. We are all on our own parenting journey aren't we. Who am i to say that you are doing it wrong? Anyone else found this? Aibu?

What she said^.

I guess I was a bit judgemental in my youth, the edges have worn off since then, but the daughter of a friend of mine is actually funny in the way she has changed from one group to another, at sixteen she was heavy metal at seventeen a hippy, then she became a dedicated follower of fashion and ended up an intellectual but no matter what the group she is in she would be very judgemental of everyone else who didn't belong to it.

I didn't read any books or followed any particular method, my personal circumstances & background influenced my choices.

With my ds being born prematurely, I followed the drs clinical advice and was made to feel like a freak by some women. I couldn't breastfeed as I didn't produce enough milk to sustain a 26 weeker so I used a high calorie milk. People will always say something stupid & I now respond by saying "really, what makes you say that?". Works a treat everytime.

I've found I've become less judgmental about parenting since following AP but I have a much lower tolerance for extremist arseholes of what ever variety.

We all parent different and no method is 100% safe.

DS was breastfed, co slept, used a sling, went in the bath with me, he refused to wean.

Dd didn't like breast milk, hated being in bed with me, preferred the buggy and loved her food for the 1st spoonful.

I didn't do anything different.

It is just insecurity. There is a view that if you follow a,b and c you will get it 'right' and will produce a secure, emotionally mature, pleasant adult, when they can be no such guarantees! These people realise this eventually but it isn't worth challenging them, just smile, nod and ignore! ( keep away from groups because they are definitely worse en masse)

Exactly ICanSeeTheSun- you can never say something is good for all babies. They are just like adults in that they are all different. Rather than read the books, choose your philosophy and fit your child to it you should make your child central and love,nurture and support the child you have, not the one you want. Some do not wish to be permanently attached, they want their own space.

Apparently I did natural parenting. But I did it because of instincts and the bond I had with my babies. There were always huffy, judgmental people around and I tended to pity them. My reasoning was that if they had to judge others then clearly they were working towards a set of standards as dictated by someone else and were not doing things by instinct. They may not have even bonded with their baby as much if they followed someonelse's path instead of their own.

I've unconsciously fallen into the AP style of parenting and I've found the exact opposite to you, OP. I'm a member of an AP group on FB and it's been fantastic to chat with like minded people since I know nobody in rl who parents similarly to me. People argue, yes, but I've not found anyone to be judgey over ff, own room, puree etc. Maybe you're a member of the wrong groups.

I never can get why another's parenting style should be up for public scrutiny. I got so fed up of being criticized about bf my son that I've told everyone I stopped when he was three although in reality still breastfeeding him at four. Still co sleeping but don't mention it anymore.

It's no ones business but mine and my sons.

My lovely sister was frozen out of the group she had become friendly with at the children's centre when she turned up with a bottle of formula. She desperately, desperately wanted to BF, but is one of the rare people who doesn't have enough glandular tissue to make milk - she saw the feeding consultant weekly, used a supplemental feeding system, was prescribed drugs to help her milk supply, and managed to struggle on until about 4 months before stopping, which I think is an immense achievement. The nasty bitches at the children's centre (who were all extended BF types) sat away from her & talked loudly about how they would never FF, how they didn't see how anyone could bond with their baby that way, etc. DSis came home in tears and never went back. I'm sure it contributed to her slide into PND.

I have a friend who is into AP (goes to special "AP" meetups with other AP mums), and is forever posting articles on FB about the dangers of "baby training", controlled crying, early weaning, etc etc. I blocked her in the end. For what it's worth, have never done controlled crying, I BF and did BLW, but I hate the smugness that makes her feel the need to educate all of her friends.

Hmmm I used to be one of those parents I think. I never judged other parents for doing what they wanted but was so evangelical about AP with DD1 that I'm sure it may have come across that way. My mum in particular found it difficult, as if I was judging the way that she raised us.

In reality I had quite bad PND after DD1. I had a horrible pregnancy and delivery, found I couldn't breast feed due to a health problem that hasn't been diagnosed before (no milk at all) and therefore I starved her for almost a week till we ended up in hospital. She was an extremely 'high needs' baby and would cry if she wasn't with me (even with her dad) and when I found AP I was like 'Yes! I can do this, this is something I can do right' and ran with it. I liked all the rules etc and followed them and it made me feel better in the midst of my depression ie she never sent in a cot after about a month old, was never left to cry, rigidly BLW, co slept for 3.5 yrs etc.

When I had DD2 I had well come through the PND and rigid stage thank goodness but rolled with the AP stuff so she was born at home, fed donated BM etc but I was so much happier in my choices, less evangelical and I don't think could have come across as judgemental at all. I did notice about the time that DD2 was born though a lot of the AP/ sling groups i'd used both online and IRL with DD1 became suddenly a lot less welcoming to 'outsiders' and anyone doing their own thing so distanced myself completely.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I often think that people who are so venomantly into a specific thing are often quite insecure in their choices and feel the need to justify to people why they do what they do. I parented DD1 and 2 very similarly though my attitude was completely different each time round... I was much happier second time round and I suspect a much nicer person to be around!

Who knows what type of parent I am, the only group I ever belonged to was mumsnet. Some how DD and I muddled through 10 years later we are both still alive and well.
I know I have been judged for a multitude of my choices, but I always figured that was the person judging's problem not mine.

Very true, Liltha, but the trouble is that parents who are fanatical about philosophies never keep quiet about them! The rest of us really don't want to know!

Softly has it right, and totally described me when DS was younger I actually felt about DS self weaning in case I had "encouraged" it. He was FOUR. There wouldn't have been any problem if I had. It took about a year for me to stop feeling guilty and fretting about it, far longer than it took for him to stop mentioning it.

I also beat myself up for ages about not doing EC properly because as soon as DS could crawl he was off doing that and didn't want to sit still. Now I can see I was crazy and it was a good thing he wanted to explore!

I was under a lot of pressure when he was born - I was only 20 and I felt people were judging my ability straight off the bat because of my age. I had an unsupportive partner who was not really interested in the baby and whose views on child rearing were practically 1950s. His whole family were similar so I tended to feel a bit panicky about my opinions/instincts on how things should be done because I felt I wanted to pick DS up all the time and was happy to breastfeed whenever and they all thought I was mad, I felt like I was having to both prove my way worked and fend off criticism all the time as well as being constantly vigilant in case they were letting him cry or giving him formula, both of which would have really upset me at the time. (And they did try to give him custard when he was about 2 months old!) Add to this my own mum was very pushed out by XP in the early days and I ended up on various forums for advice and most forums I found 5 years ago were American ones, and in the US it's very much more split as far as I can gather, there's no in-between, do what you want, throw the book out of the window kind of muddling along (well I'm sure there is, but they aren't hanging out on the internet obsessing about it!)

Anyway, I suppose I got myself into this mindset, that you were either co-sleeping, breastfeeding, sling-using, gentle discipline-ing, etc, or you couldn't wait to get your body back, all the drugs in birth, cot in own room doing controlled crying as soon as somebody said it was okay, never listening to your child, disciplining solely with reward charts and the naughty step, and so everyone was either "us" or "them". I spent my time whenever I met new parents hoping desperately that they were an "us" although then I'd try to convince them of all the things that they could be doing better if only they knew about them convinced that every slightly different choice was a matter of either not knowing that something was possible or being brainwashed by "society" to think they shouldn't. I was such a nob, it's a wonder I ever managed to make any friends at all. I was terrified of the "them" parents and would avoid them or try to hide my parenting as much as possible because I was scared they would criticise me.

It's totally nuts - I can see that now really clearly, and thanks to mumsnet - really, ONLY thanks to mumsnet, I have realised that the "us and them" theory is totally bonkers, most people are muddling along somewhere in the middle, the idea I had of the "them" parent is a caricature and not true (possibly similar to the caricature idea some people have about AP parents...) and there's nothing wrong with offering information when someone is asking for it but most people do already know what the different options are and don't need to be told. But I was still beyond shocked when I met someone who did half of the AP things but then smacked! It totally threw me - I thought, that doesn't go together! And this was after I thought I'd thrown away those old stereotypes.

So I think the criticism comes from a combination of anxiety in what you're doing yourself (I remember a really heartfelt decision NOT to use a rear facing car seat when DS needed to go into group 1 because I was just so tired of feeling I had to defend and explain my choices all the time and I couldn't bear one more comment about "Oh that's weird!"), a really warped view of what "other parents" are doing and the reasons why they are doing it and hence a genuine feeling that the actions of other people are harmful.

It definitely abates as your child gets older which is why most people in those groups are parent of one child, under 3 years old. You do get the occasional older child's parent or parent of more than one child but this is either down to extreme stress/anxiety or they can see through that stuff but are a bloody saint ignoring/trying to bring some rationality to the more judgemental discussions.

I did not and do not require how I parent to be labelled and/or associated with a certain book or style.

I agree with the others that this is very common and quite judgemental by it's very nature.

Do you need the support/validation/applause from these groups anymore?

Focus on your self belief and parenting ability. Seek inspiration support and advice by all means but just because people choose the same parenting style as you doesn't mean they are going to be like you in other ways, or even nice people!!! You can disconnect from
These groups and still describe yourself as an AP if you want to.

leave these groups tbh the whole parenting style thing is a huge PITA just parent your children how you want most parents are attached to their children anyway so we all AP adding a sling or bedsharing is just things you do, these people are judging you because they have either read some books and following these styles to suit themselves or so far up their own arses that they cant see the bigger picture, leave these groups you will be happier in your choices

or what becool said put it better than i did

I love that post Bertie. It made me laugh when you said "I was a nob" More people should have that self awareness!
God, If I had been 20 when DS was born I think I would have been a total basketcase. Even at 29, I had no clue about babies-I had never even held one, and thanks to my mother giving me the Gina Ford book right after he was born, spent the first 5 months carrying around my nap-refusing refluxy marsupial baby and feeling like a giant failure all round!
(I sadly hadn't discovered MN then, and often wonder if I would have succumbed to PND if I had been able to access some sane advice).

Oh wow, buggies are bad now?

I found a page on Facebook going on about cc being child abuse. I commented suggesting people should be more about positive reinforcement (to other moms rather than all the negativity and judging they were doing). The mod deleted my post and pm'd me telling me to 'get fucked' and that she doesn't agree with positive reinforcement . Turns out it's a parenting style too . Who knew?

I have friends into ap... I'm not at all... We were all slightly judgey of eachother in the beginning but I think we've all come to realise that none of us have the answers!

I love your post too, Bertie. Brilliant. I'm all in favour of young mothers but personally if I had had a child when I was twenty I hate to think how they would have turned out, I had totally off-the-wall ideas about child-rearing.
As it was, not having been much into children or babies I got every book on child-rearing I could lay my hands on (pre-internet days) but found that even the best were only 90% good. One book was even written by a psychiatrist, based on everything that had ever perturbed any of his patients, it was mad.

Round my way they call themselves "gentle parents". They may be lovely and gentle to their kids, but they are brutal, rude and hurtful to other parents. Where do people get off telling other people, to their faces, that they don't agree with your decision to drive a car/push a buggy/use reins/feed non-organic food to your pfb?

what is wrong with buggies surely you are not meant to lugg about babies and shopping blah blah god if i didnt use a buggie i would be fecked

I WAS fucked having a child at 20. Thought I knew it all, FFS.

I mean to be fair I had off the wall ideas and then changed them, and channelled my eagerness to do everything well into methods, which, to be fair, I read and thought "Yes! This sounds perfect to me!" it wasn't like I just signed up to a theory at random. It did feel like the right route to take - and I'd probably be similarly AP with future babies but I think I might just (hopefully) be less of a cock about it. I have DH now who is supportive and not an idiot although we have moments where he says something and I practically run across the room in slow motion to grab him and say "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!" but I think that is a hangover from my days of feeling like I had to be defensive over every little thing

Baby wearing? Baby WEARING?
People actually use that term?

Umm, am I missing something, or is this carrying your baby?