to think DH is being rude?

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

We're off to see my family for Easter (this has been in the plan for a while and DH knows I am excited to go because I've not seen my niece or my brother since Christmas). Admittedly, we see far more of my family than DH's because his live overseas, but I have often urged him to plan a trip to see them and he's never found the time.

So, I'd been saying all day yesterday that we should probably leave around 11 to get there for lunchtime, but I'd check with my brother what time they were eating their main meal. We both woke up really tired. I rang my brother, he said they were eating in the evening though we'd be welcome for lunch, and I suggested we arrive 'a little bit after lunch'.

DH, who listened to the phone call, said as soon as I put the phone down, 'so, around 3?' I said I'd thought more like 2, and he made a face.

He has form for doing this - whatever time I suggest to see my family, he suggests a shorter time. I expect I should learn from this but I already see them fairly infrequently. I wouldn't mind if he raised the issue, but he lets me plan, then gets in his reservations at the last minute.

Who's being rude - me for expecting him to put up with my relatives, or him?

I don't agree, Officer. Yes, if she had made a firm plan that he'd agreed to, to go to at 2, fine. But the plans hadn't been made at all, dh suggested 3 p.m. which, as people have said, is a much more logical time to turn up - it gives db and his family the chance to have a leisurely lunch and clear up. It was OP who then decided she wanted to make it 2. It would be mad for her to flounce out to get there at 2 just because her husband hadn't read her mind and/or is duty bound to obey her without question.

But he does it almost every time.
So I'd use that information next time I planned something.
My OH has strengths and flaws that are consistent, and so I work with the material I have. He does the same with me, I'm sure.

Havn't read whole thread, but If you were originally going to arrive at 11 for lunch how long would you have stayed? Till 5ish?

Going at 3 and staying through dinner at 6.30 untill 8pm is 5 hours. That's quite a big enough chunk of time surely?

Is this about the detail of an hour here or there? Obviously not. I think the point is your DH finds it a bit tedious round at your family's house for more than a couple of hours at a time. It's just not being acknowledged properly. By either of you - not blaming you.

Why don't you visit more often for less time, is it a long journey? Why not make a few of the longer visits alone (at times that are not 'special occasions' like xmas or easter).

Could it be that you don't stick to your leaving time agreement very well? ie: he's clock watching a bit waiting for 8pm, and then finds you're not getting your coat till 9ish?

If he has form for it Ican see it's annoying.

But 3 for a 6/7 meal seems more than enough!

Could it be that these holidays all seem to focus around your family to him?

Why not ask him what's the longest he can manage with relatives x and y, and stick to that 2/3 times a year. And go more by yourself.

If he's happy not to see his own side of the family, how happy is he to see yours? Some people just don't do extended family much.

I can sort of see where he is coming from. My inlaws live 150 miles away so we visit about 4 times a year. the first hour is great catching up on all of the news, the next couple of hours are fine. however after about three hours of sitting around talking I am just itching to do something, anything.
Its not that I don't like them I just don't want to sit talking for 6 hours, even if we have a meal in the middle of it. Its not what I would do on a normal day and I am a bit of an introvert so I really need some time alone even if just washing up!

No no no.
It's family. It's his wife's family. He has to suck it up.
Be a grown up. Be polite and interested. That's the deal.
Unless they're horrible to him, just being bored or having something better to do is not a reasonable excuse. It's a requirement of a well rounded adult that they can interact socially with their spouse's family. It's a reasonable expectation of an adult relationship that ones partner respects one's kin and relationships.
And LRD I read many of your posts, I respect your view on feminist issues and have learned a lot from you but I tentatively disagree about the issue of not accepting that some things are a "man thing" whether by biology or conditioning (bloody hell, that auto-corrected to ironing ) one of the differences (ime) is that Men seem better at putting their own wishes before others than women.
would love to know how it works out ad how you handle it because I think you often have some good advice for the rest of us.

He can be polite and interested and still be quite reasonable in suggesting that they turn up at 3 p.m. instead of 2 p.m., given that they're going to be there till at least 8 anyway.

Pulling a face is not the action of someone asonanly suggesting a mo sensible arrival time for a visit.
Plus, this is a pattern.
It's not the end of the world.
It's not a "LTB".
But it's ungracious. And immature.

YANBU. He's an adult & should behave like one, not a sulky teenager.

Call him on it. And present future arrangements as a fait-accompli rather than negotiating times with him.

My DP used to have strategies like this for my family: ducking out of events, being constantly late etc. Yet at the same time expecting me/us to be on time & present for HIS family events. He soon learned that wasn't acceptable & is much better now. If I'd let him away with it he would have been quite happy. People get away with what they can.

As someone said up thread, it's also about how he behaves when he's there. My DP & I just get over ourselves & are polite/make an effort with inlaws. It's just part of the deal in a relationship (unless they're abusive etc).

I'm a bit divided on this one as well. I can see how this is a bit admitting for you. You want to see your family and don't want to feel guilty about this. I confess though I am often like this with dh's family. They are lovely people but he wants to spend as much time as possible with them and I find it exhausting. I work and we have a child and I just don't want to spend my whole weekend with them. So I often suggest that we shorten it from his original plan slightly. That way we see them and we still get some time to ourselves. You might see it as rude but I see it as compromise.

Well, there's a lot of rude ppl about then IMHO
All the mil angsst we here about on MN. Is that just based on DIls not wanting to spend time with their DHs family?
Surely not.

'Red - not sure how 2-8 would be ten hours, but maybe that's just me?'

I put 6-10 hours: you didn't say what time you were leaving and I guessed it would be between 8 and midnight if you were staying for dinner. Six hours is still a long time. Imagine going to the pub with his mum for that long if you aren't particularly close to her. Conversation would dry up!

Initially, you said you were thinking of arriving at 12.30, so your husband would have to make small talk for 7.5 hours. Maybe he just didn't feel he could be on form for that long.

Do they live so far away that you can't see them more often, OP?

I'm with your husband on this really; it's nice to see family but why does it need to be s-t-r-e-t-c-h-e-d out? It's like you see a value in a lengthy visit whereas your husband sees the same value (and more) in a shorter visit. It's not as if he's suggesting a one-hour timeslot to fit them into.

I would rather see people more frequently but for shorter duration. I also keep up with them by phone. What's the added benefit from making it a 'most of the day' thing? People's weekend's are short and I wouldn't particularly want to allocate most of one of my precious days just for eating lunch.

You say he has 'form' but then you must have it too for it to be an issue.

Well I'm learning a lesson here.
Who are the ppl we want to spend our time with?
Christmas and Easter an you ant spare a day for family
Fucking hell.

officer

I can see your (and *LRD's) point but from what has been posted the only firm plans where that they where going to arrive at some point.

The original midday meal has been changed to the afternoon/evening meal, if the OP and her family has form for this it is no wonder that the OP's DH pulls faces.

Ok it isn't because he's a man. Just many women I know who have reached 60+ all moan about the same things off their dps and all the women behave the same. And all act later surprised and grumpy.

So, don't be that. That's all I'm saying. You've noticed. So either do something about it or quit whining. But it's only a behaviour that gets worse with age not better. On both sides of gender. This stuff creeps up in couples.

I don't think that 6 hours with ils few times a year its a lot. It won't kill him.

Ime 6 hours it is not much to catch up with family if there are toddlers in the company. They might have naps, conversations are interupted, going upstairs to change nappies etc. Time flies faster when there are children present.

Sorry, obviously I didn't reply because we were out (! ) and I'm knackered now (and, ah, well into my glass of wine). So excuse me if I don't manage to reply to everything, I do appreciate it all.

amanda - yes, true, actually, I totally agree it could very well be male conditioning. I read the 'it's because he's a man' comments as implying 'it's innate, he can't help it,' which was a bit naive of me. I do think conditioning plays a big role here.

We left at 9 rather than 8, because I pointed out I'd been irritated and he said we should. And I took a leaf out of officer's book and thought, fuck it, I would like to stay so we will. And it was nice. And tomorrow I am going back on my own to babysit DN while they go out for the evening. It is true I dote on my DN. She's lovely and I don't have any of my own, so I definitely go into childless-auntie-mode.

There's two reasons we don't see them more often for less time: firstly, DB and SIL travel for work quite a bit, and they've been in Sweden until a few weeks ago, and secondly, DH isn't keen on the idea of travelling for an hour and a half for an hour or two's visit, and TBH neither am I.

Anyway ... we went, and it was tiring because DN was pretty hyper with all of us there, but I wasn't silently fuming because I'd talking about it here, so thank you very much.

I will try to do more visits on my own and just sticking with plans and going, too.

I find that my dp doesn't want to do long visits with my family, but then he doesn't want to do long visits with his family either.

We have agreed that he will come once a year to my parents house for the large family gathering around Christmas, and he doesn't complain when they come here, but he does often go to the gym or the pub when they are due to be here because he finds it a bit of a trial. All other visiting to my family I do by myself because that means I can set off when I want, come home when I want, nobody is moaning, it's nice.

I go with him to visit his family, but only because his family have dogs and they aren't as aware as I am that our dd isn't used to dogs and they're much bigger creatures when you're only 3yo. I spend a lot of my time lifting dd away from their dog, who she loves, but she's not happy with the dog being right in her face.

If the motivation was that OP was desperate to see the DNs and they would be on better form earlier in the day, I'm even more mystified. Why not just stick with the original plan, go at 11 and come home before their bedtime?

I'd be appalled if "a little after lunch" meant 2 pm. To me it means "3 earliest".

I guess people keep different hours. DN went to bed at half past eight, we stayed another half hour so we could have a coffee (and so I could organize to come babysit).

She probably would have been on better form earlier but TBH she was in a pretty hyper mood anyway.

At 11 we were both fairly sleepy as was DB, and it'd hardly have made a difference to her bedtime.

I think dragon probably has a good model for me, to do more on my own.