to think working parents don't 'do all the things SAHPs do plus work'?

[Sampanther]

I've heard this response an awful lot, particularly to that awful 'being a SAHM is the hardest job in the world' advert. I have worked outside the home and been a SAHM and I do not feel that working meant I did all the parenting plus work on top. For example, as a SAHM parent I'd deal with squabbling, tantrums, discipline, naps, take them to parks/soft play etc and help them to play nicely with other children, cook with them, do painting and play doh and so on.

As a working parent I had an hour of getting them ready in the morning, dropped them off at childcare, then an hour of winding them down and putting them to bed at night. I could eat and go to the toilet in peace during the day, the house was tidy and needed little cleaning as we were rarely in it and I had very little to do with discipline etc.

I'm not trying to say working parents don't parent, because obviously they do but AIBU to think parents who work fulltime don't 'work and do all the parenting as well'? I don't get why working mums respond that way and think they're right but if a working husband came home and said to his stay at home wife that he does just as much parenting as her then I'm sure mumsnet would not agree.

Grassissinging, you put it all so well. and I wish you the utmost enjoyment in your cuppas next week.

I agree with everyone who has said "it's not a competition" "the problem is this relentless comparison" etc.

BUT, except in exceptional cases, the life of a WOH non-parent-non-carer, AND the life of a SAHM of a T child, do include downtime that in the life of a WOHM just get swallowed up. Yes, my child minder is physically with my children when I am not (and she is ace and works bloody hard, far harder than my P did when he was SAHD). But she doesn't do school admin, doesn't agonise about that weird rash on the back of the neck, doesn't do night terrors, doesn't mend or buy clothes or do packed lunches, etc etc etc. If I didn't have children I would consider myself knackered when I get back from work after a 12 or 13 hour day. As I do, the next shift is just starting. No breaks at work, either, or I will stay there longer which I can't afford.

I took a week off to potty train dd2. It isn't the job of the CM or the preschool to run around with a potty for the days it took to get it sort of bedded in (fingers crossed). I potty trained dd1 on mat leave with dd2 and hardly noticed the effort. I was there all the time anyway, it was just part of the job.

So part of the Thing of being a WOHM is fitting everything in. Life is an intricate mosaic in which no sliver of time, however weirdly shaped and pointy at one end, can be left unused, without something wedged into it. So that is draining in itself - not just the doing, but the mental puzzle of completing the mosaic so that every 24 hours somehow holds together with all the shards fitted in and staying in place.

Similarly, when I was on maternity leave it was bloody hard work but at least I could zone out when the dcs finally went to sleep. (Also - another point about the CM - with both my dcs, the children I handed over to them were cheerful, communicative 10 - 12 months' olds, happily in a routine, and eating a wide range of normal, easily prepared foods - the job of turning a mewling alien who lives on the breast and screams inexplicably and randomly into a child with a bed time, nap times, and meal times, was mine, all mine, lucky me) (actualy I take that back, it was probably more that the job was living with the alien until it turned into that child)

You may pick up that I keep saying WOHM and not WOHP. It's a gross generalisation but dads just don't do as much, even when they are officially SAHP. I am kind of embittered right now but I still remember being really upset on my first day back after maternity leave when I came home and there was no dinner for me and nothing for me to eat. I had made dinner for the 4 of us every night when I was on maternity leave, starting with a 1 week old baby. Every single night there was something even if it was Fruits of the Freezer and we sat down and ate it at the table. The first day I went back to work and left the dcs with their new SAHD he texted me on the train with a picture of the beautiful feta and tomato tart he had made. I had no idea that in the 20 minutes it would take me to get home, he and the dcs were going to demolish THE LOT. Every scrap. That picture was cruel - showing off "look I can cook" (oh you mean you can throw food on a sheet of bought pastry, well, fair enough, you have a toddler running rampage and a baby entering evil hour, I get it) but not saving me ONE PIECE?

yanbu

So he's on shift work which means some shifts he is around the house more than four hours in a week surely?

I can never figure out whether these situations are caused by men who want nothing to do with family life while coming home to a comfy house and a cooked meal, or women who want to think no one else can look after their children they way they can to validate their life choices.

I don't want to make this about the OP's situation, but seriously, if you are saying that you find being a SAHM with a partner harder than when you were a single parent working with DC, the issue is the balance of responsibility in your r/s, not other women's work choices.

The DC dad should know what DC like to eat etc, that is not rocket science. You sound like you are single parenting but with someone else bringing in the money; but at the same time losing your own earning potential.

Agree with previous posters who say the issue is not SAH vs WOH but the overall gender balance of responsibility. Your situation is almost an epitome of that.

This thread is starting to remind me of another. The OP of that thread had given up a promising career to be a SAHM and felt that nobody appreciated the sacrifice she had made. OP does your DH understand your concerns about your own career? Does he really appreciate the choice you have made and the benefits to him?

I think that there seem to be 2 different definitions of parenting here.

Doing all the hands on wiping, playing, cleaning etc is parenting but then so is working to provide for your DC, making decisions about their care, schools, instilling morals and values etc.

I gave birth and BF my DC - my DP would be horrified if I considered him less of a parent to our DC. The roles don't always have to be the same but I think his WOH to provide for us so that I could SAH on Mat leave to BF makes us equal parents and thank goodness my DC feel the same.

Also think OP that you are judging other women's work days on your DP possibly. I am another who can work flexibly for some of the time and have spent many an early morning working before DC get up or after they have gone to bed.

Stay at home parents do more hands-on parenting when the children are small, before they go to school; working parents feel more stressed because if they are at home they feel guilty about work, and at work guilty about neglecting children, but as somebody said: does it matter? It isn't a competition, and most parents, whatever their lifestyle, work extremely hard at childcare and career.

I think that happens a lot on these threads Bluebell

Im a WOHP as is DP who has never used childcare, always had a parent at schoolgate,plays etc but the assumption is if you WOH you must have a long commute, long hours in childcare etc

Most of the parents I know have flexibility, share roles etc.

at work guilty about neglecting children
Nope not a moments guilt here.

Also its a bit of a misnomer that only SAHM do most of the hands on childcare when they are little.
If you have 3 close together then you get 3 x mat leave.
In my case I had 3 year long periods at home (paid!) when mine were little - the eldest child obviously benefits the most !

I feel no guilt either. Nothing to feel guilty about.

I've refrained from asking this on the million other threads with this theme but who really gives a shit?

The only thing that most WOHP don't do is the day entertaining. Everything else with the house and kids still has to be done. One isn't better than the other as a rule, it all boils down to what suits you as a family. Both are just doing the very best that they can.

Women and it is mostly the women need to stop putting each other down it's ridiculous, pointless and juvenile.

I sah with now 4yo DD, plus since she turned six weeks I've worked 30 hours on top in the evening/night time in a high pressure role, getting in at 2/3/4 am and then up early with DD.

What does that make me? Fucking tired

Seriously though, the moaning and martyrdom of sahms who don't have to deal with the added stress of bringing in a wage really grips my shit

Well that was a charming and helpful contribution Shit

yes I had 3 lots of year long mat leave ...and feel no guilt whatsoever!

I agree with AllHailQueenMab

"part of the Thing of being a WOHM is fitting everything in. Life is an intricate mosaic in which no sliver of time, however weirdly shaped and pointy at one end, can be left unused, without something wedged into it. So that is draining in itself - not just the doing, but the mental puzzle of completing the mosaic so that every 24 hours somehow holds together with all the shards fitted in and staying in place."

I am a sahm of 22 years and I don't think I have worked more or less in general to anybody else.
The problem quite often is that people don't realise what you do and think everybody fits into neat little categories. I mean this for both sahp and wohp.
There are a few sahps I know who H.ed their dc and like in my case help their dh in their business etc. I am not equating this to a full time job because some times we are lazy buggers who do nothing much at all, other than the necessary, the same I suppose for a wohp on a day off.
We are all still sahps though because we don't go out to work nor do we receive a wage.
This is just one example I am aware of, because I fall into this category. However, unless I explain this quite often I am met with at being a sahm of 22 years and presumed to be lazy.

"part of the Thing of being a WOHM is fitting everything in"

Wheras the pressures of SAHMdom are often supertight budgeting, making things from scratch and boredom.

I've done both, now I freelance and the pressures are avoiding distractions, making my safe unavailable for domestic nonsense in work hours and a wildly fluctuating cashflow.

Swings and roundabouts. Highs and lows. Horse for courses. This oneupmanship is very dull.

I also find the relentless comparison and adversarial one up man ship is such a miserable thing. Why do we have to assign a rating for each persons life and brownie points for who has it harder?!

(btw I am a disabled single working mother of a preschooler who may/may not also be disabled. I'd say people in my situation or parents caring for children with sn have the worst deal, and work relentlessly, grindingly hard. strangely, i don't often see us joining in the relentless 'I do more' battles. I wonder why?)

I'm on mat leave at the moment and LOVING it. I'm dreading going back to work because I remember how hard it was trying to juggle everything when I was working (have 2 DC).

Being a temporary SAHM means I have time to get the house work done, make dinner for a reasonable time, go to an exercise class in the evening without feeling too tired to move, have breakfast with my DC every day, keep on top of the admin, do reading etc with my DS. It's wonderful, I feel relaxed and confident that I can fit it all in.

Once I go back to work its over. I will attempt to fit all that in around my work hours and will never feel satisfied that I'm achieving any of it to the standard that I would like.

I'm still a SAHM.

My younger two are in Primary. The school day is over by 3pm. 6 hours is not long enough for me to go back to viable employment. If I use Afterschool care at their school it needs to be full time - and I'm not prepared to put my kids into full time after school care.
Coupled with that all 4 kids are on holiday for 14 weeks of the year - I can't afford that much holiday care.

I am so fed up with people putting me down as a SAHM, everyone makes their own choices. But I'm regularly offered jobs that I don't want because people can't seem to accept that I don't want to work. I like being there when my kids come home from school - even the teenagers. I do get some time to myself during the day, but most of my day is focused on the needs of my family.

Most of the working mums I know manage to work round their kids- and I don't think the kids are short-changed.

Only one mum I know puts her career before the needs of her kids. She uses a lot of childcare - even when they're on family holidays. I think the lack of parental input will be very telling in the teenage years. In my view -it's in the early years - right through primary - that you can build the bonds that get you through the teenage years.

It largely depends on the age of your dc and the nature of your job and your working hours. As a teacher whose (ages 7 and 9) dc attend the same school I work in, I feel I do what SAHMs do plus work with regards to my children. My parenting hours are the same as a SAHM. My dc come with me to work an hour earlier and make themselves busy in my classroom until the bell goes. It's the same after school.

Bloody hell...here we go AGAIN!

I was a WOTH parent. I'd have loved being a SAHP.
I'm marrying for money in my next incarnation.