to think working parents don't 'do all the things SAHPs do plus work'?

[Sampanther]

I've heard this response an awful lot, particularly to that awful 'being a SAHM is the hardest job in the world' advert. I have worked outside the home and been a SAHM and I do not feel that working meant I did all the parenting plus work on top. For example, as a SAHM parent I'd deal with squabbling, tantrums, discipline, naps, take them to parks/soft play etc and help them to play nicely with other children, cook with them, do painting and play doh and so on.

As a working parent I had an hour of getting them ready in the morning, dropped them off at childcare, then an hour of winding them down and putting them to bed at night. I could eat and go to the toilet in peace during the day, the house was tidy and needed little cleaning as we were rarely in it and I had very little to do with discipline etc.

I'm not trying to say working parents don't parent, because obviously they do but AIBU to think parents who work fulltime don't 'work and do all the parenting as well'? I don't get why working mums respond that way and think they're right but if a working husband came home and said to his stay at home wife that he does just as much parenting as her then I'm sure mumsnet would not agree.

I never thought being a SAHM was a sacrifice until I wanted to go back to work again. Then I realised how damaging time out is to a career. However, just as being a SAHM was sacrificing the income the family could have had if I'd remained working, so the investment needed and setbacks to my career now I am returning to it is a family sacrifice too.

Both my parents worked full time but my mums hours meant my dad was the primary caregiver to me and I have lots of lovely early memories or him, very few of my mum.

It was my dad who taught me life skills, cooking, did homework, read with me and played with me.

My mum had an hour in the morning to get herself ready, do bits around the house, make sure I was ready and then off to childcare. No quality time there and no memories of it as a consequence. In the evening she'd get home at 6.30 and by the time she'd got changed and eaten, I'd be lucky if I got an hour with her. That simply wasn't enough time for her to have very much if an influence in my life at all until I got older and could stay up later. I didn't want that for my dd and my DH's working hours would have meant he couldn't have taken a more active role as my dad had.

With only an hour a day of sit down time with kids in the evenings (and leaving housework till the weekend), how can
2 parents work traditional 9-5 hours, commute and still be raising their kids to the same degree as families with parents who have one parent home, even if one works nights and the other days.

My being a SAHM also means my husband has a better life. He goes to work and when he comes home his time is leisure time. He had no home chores and this meant he effectively works less hours because he didn't have half the home stuff as his responsibility.

Now I'm studying very long hours to go back to work again, it's a massive transition for us both. I need to stop doing it all and get out if that mindset, he needs to get into the mindset of having to work more hours (all be it much if that unpaid again as home chores!). Even though we both want to adjust, it's hard to change. I dread to think what it'd be like if this was something either or neither of us wanted to make this change.

Why worry yourself about two parents who might work 9-5?
If I come across parents in that situation, I assume that they are just as committed to being a good parent as I am. I assume that they are doing what they are doing because its the right thing in their circumstances, and that they have worked hard to develop systems and provision which works for them.

That would be a good starting point for everyone wouldn't it? To assume that other parents love and care for their family as much as we do? Rather than assuming that because they're doing something differently, they must be inferior

Not everyone is like you janey.

I've been told I'm a bad mum for working, for not working enough, not having a proper job (it's not a 9-5), not doing enough in the house, not going to school event on work day when blasted school gave parents an hours notice, for struggling with house work, for doing housework when dc are awake, for not taking dc abroad, for spending any money on dc when I get cc and many more crimes against parenting and humanity. In fact I've been called the worst mother in the history of all mothers. It is completely impossible to do the right thing.

Parenting is not just the hands on stuff like wiping noses and bottoms but also strategic. Thinking about what's best for your family at any given time; Being aware of your dc's and dp's and your own needs and wants working together, trying to being harmonious but solving problems together, being a unit.

I agree with 3times5 on this. But if you choose to outsource or delegate part of the daytime child care, you don't stop or do less parenting you've made a different choice which is right for your personal situation and priorities. You are still parenting even if you're at work. You're providing for your children. How can that be any less parenting?

Where I differ from 3times5 though is that doing one isn't necessarily better than the other. I've done both and right now, having two working parents works well for us as a family. I loved being a SAHM and now I'm fortunate enough to have a job which allows me to work flexibly and from home when I want and I prefer to work/earn than not. But since I've had children, whether I've been earning or not, first and foremost, I'm a parent and my love, support, role modelling doesn't stop when I'm not in the presence of my children. Being a parent has made me better at my job, I want to be the best role model I can be for my children and that's rubbed off on how I approach my work too. In fact I'm much better at my job since having children, negotiating and solving problems at work are often a whole bunch easier than sibling quarrels. I talk about my work to my children and they help me solve some of my work issues because I engage them in what I do.

It's all parenting, it's just different tactics.

That's shit if you're being told those things. I guess all you can do is keep telling yourself that anyone else who is so interested in the minutiae of how you live your life, is clearly not very content with their own.

I do I work night shift full time then I come home and deal with all of the above, the kids are asleep when I'm at work

(That was in response to useles)

I had/have no desire to spend a year or two at home.

But a lot of people do Scottish

No one is arguing with people who want to be SAHP though. It's about accepting that not everyone wants the same things.

but all the women I know including myself, were brought up to believe that staying at home and putting aside your career if you want to, was a bad thing to never be considered.

Me too Dino and it is just as narrow and restricting a view as the 1950s archetype.

Littlebear could we spare a thought for the people who are railroaded into SAHMhood against their own preference and ambition and then have to listen to the disparagement of their role on top?

Woolly sentiments about both patents taking few years at home aren't representative of what everyone wants
Some might,but I wouldn't and I don't know many others who'd both want few years out
I chose to return,after 6mth I was gagging to get back.it was stupefying being at home.

Nothing is representative of what everyone wants Scottish because everyone wants, needs, can afford different things. That is why it is irritating when crowds of people start bellowing that their way is best and the other people are prats for making a different choice.

Can you explain what is wooly of sentimental about the idea that both parents might want to take a year or two off each though?

what is wooly OR sentimental^......

Bluebelltuesday

Spot on!

A pointless argument.

There are those that work full-time, part time, semi full time, different amounts of children, different ages, different genders, parents who work away, single parents, attachment parents etc etc to infinitum.

It's impossible to measure the quantity or quality of different parenting set ups.

I work; I have to, I may not have the same quantity of parenting as a SAHM, but I sure as hell have the same quality

Why Fid. Women who are railroaded into going back to work when they don't want to, but have to for whatever reason, are disparaged too - witness posters above saying they aren't as much of a parent as a SAHM.

Maybe as other posters have suggested we should do what suits our families, let other people do the same and stop competing.

Perhaps you can explain why you think people want a year or two at home?

Them too Little. Nobody should be disparaged, but a lot of it goes on and nobody seems able to explain why they feel the need to criticize on codescend to other parents.

Scottish I think a good number of people have that wish because I have heard them express it. Obviously a good number of people have entirely different wishes too.

Working isn't a burdensome chore,I want to do it.more than I want year or two at home
In fact I don't want years at home,as kids at school,and there'd be nothing to do
Work isn't an imposed yoke,and no I don't long to be faffing about as a housewife.it wouldn't suit me

As working parent I think I set a good example to the dc
I feel I need to,want to contribute and provide
I see no value in a few years out. Out to do what?

I would (finances allowing) quite like the opportunity to spend a few years at home.
I would like to be there to drop off and pick up my DCs from school and to have "enough" time to straighten up at home, batch cook, make costumes for effing book day, have a bit of time in my own head.
But I don't have that opportunity.
I hope (and for the most part I believe) that my DCs won't be damaged by my partial absence or their time with a cm.
But I still maintain that I do actually do all the things I would do if I were a sahm. I just do them fewer times a day/ week/ month be ause I also go o work.

There is no great value in any of us trying to explain why we think other people might want a year off/ two years off/ or conversely why we think others might want a short time off and to step straight back into our careers...

Surely the point is simply, as is being constantly repeated on here, that there is no one size fits all, and therefore what we do in our own individual family unit may be quite different to what others want

I can see some value in offering ones own experience when asked, because it can be useful to gauge other people's experiences when you perhaps need advice. For example, there is another thread running right this moment in AIBU from a woman who is anxious about how she will cope with 12 weeks maternity leave. I posted on it about an hour ago relating my own experience because that's what was asked for. However, it would be very different if I came onto this thread and started saying that everyone should take 12 weeks off because it worked very well for me.

Why not just live and let live?

So get on with own individual thing.it gets problematic when global presumption are made
It's often asserted working mums are guilty and wracked.as if it's a given
We all experience this differently,and there is no universal sentiment other than trying to do right thing

I have always worked since children and out of my last 3 jobs, which have been full time or thereabouts I have always had my children with me.

Its more fun than sahming to me as I get home cooked food for them without cooking it, daily trips in holidays without paying for any of them, never lonely as always with other adults who are my friends, and big one is I clean like crazy at work but at home I like coming back to everything perfect and no mess at all. When we are in it gets messy and I prefer making a mess elsewhere!

Working isn't a burdensome chore,I want to do it.more than I want year or two at home. In fact I don't want years at home,as kids at school,and there'd be nothing to do

Completely agree wi you Scottish. I love my work, most people do.

I have been wracking my brains since last night to think of anyone I know, (carers of DC with SEN and Homed Edders aside), who are SAHMs into the school years. I can only thing of one slightly vapid, salon-obsessed woman, whose husband is very wealthy. SAHMs of school-aged children are just not a big group. Barely worth discussing. Is it different where you are?

I know several people who have said it was easier to go to work and come home to a tidy house that hasn't been wrecked by kids. They saw work as a break from the kids.

Both wohp and sahp with pre school children work 24 hours a day. They each have their open stresses and is different for each family.

My life became significantly easier when they went to school. Sahp with only school age do have it easier, definitely.

I don't know how single parents manage though. They "win" on the hard stakes, whether wohp or sahp.

What's your job jasmine? Or do you want to keep it quiet so as not to cause a stampede?