to think working parents don't 'do all the things SAHPs do plus work'?

[Sampanther]

I've heard this response an awful lot, particularly to that awful 'being a SAHM is the hardest job in the world' advert. I have worked outside the home and been a SAHM and I do not feel that working meant I did all the parenting plus work on top. For example, as a SAHM parent I'd deal with squabbling, tantrums, discipline, naps, take them to parks/soft play etc and help them to play nicely with other children, cook with them, do painting and play doh and so on.

As a working parent I had an hour of getting them ready in the morning, dropped them off at childcare, then an hour of winding them down and putting them to bed at night. I could eat and go to the toilet in peace during the day, the house was tidy and needed little cleaning as we were rarely in it and I had very little to do with discipline etc.

I'm not trying to say working parents don't parent, because obviously they do but AIBU to think parents who work fulltime don't 'work and do all the parenting as well'? I don't get why working mums respond that way and think they're right but if a working husband came home and said to his stay at home wife that he does just as much parenting as her then I'm sure mumsnet would not agree.

Fid, until the number of fathers SAH with children is equal to the number of mothers and there is an acceptance that either parent can do as good a parenting job, and until it's easy to step back into employment without recent and relevant work experience, it's something which will unfairly impact on women. I don't particularly care though, as I said up there I don't think anyone male or female should be dependent on someone else financially.

And I continue to think its an important debate as long as people are able to leave aside their own emotional fears and look at the bigger debate and not who is wiping their kids bum, unfortunately that never seems to happen. Important debates though don't get negated by other, albeit tragic, occurrences.

No, nocheese that is not what I think. I think most work for other reasons, i.e. to pay the bills, but when retaining financial independence in case of relationship breakdown is the SOLE reason, I think that's tremendously sad......i would rather stay at home in the actual circumstances I AM in and insure against unforeseen circumstances.

Potato I think you're being purposefully convoluted and bit vague
At pains to state you're housewife don't work,but various sources finances
You brought it up,made point not being dependent?naturally it raises questions

Blanket condescension my arse.

Thousands of women are being economically disadvantaged by a system which idealises the madonna female caregiver and is perpetuated by both women who need to create that role and men whom it suits to encourage that mentality.

And if thats not worth pointing out because it doesn't fit your circumstances, good for you.

I didn't mean anyone should moderate their posts scottish, just that events can make fools of all our plans for economic security or any security at all for that matter.

I can't imagine many people work for the SOLE reason that they need to retain economic independence in case their other half buggers off. There are all sorts of reasons why I work, to create a balance in my (and Dhs) life, to use different skills to the ones used at home, for the social element, salary, pension... obsessing about whether my marriage will go tits up certainly doesn't feature- and that goes for the other WOHP i know

Rhonda - whose fears are we discussing cause I'm not scared. My husband had the choice of staying home to wipe bums, or us both working PT, but seeing as how my shift work was a PITA, I decided to jack it in.

I agree we need to look at fears and the bigger debate - the fear of being financially "dependent" on others to the extent that it informs people's choices is truly worrying.

Rhonda is right, unfortunately it has been normalised for a long time. Whilst you can't live your life thinking what if, you do need to consider what if, at some stage in your life.
When I was growing up it was a regular comment from the adults I met in passing. "find yourself a nice rich man". I am 47 and it was usual to hear this a lot. My parents thank goodness didn't think like this, but it was part of the culture then.
I think during the 80's before women were encouraged to really break down barriers of inequality it was rife. We were expected to find a rich man to provide for us and be idolised by friends if we could manage it.
Fool me, married for love

I don't think this widespread cultural disparagement of SAHPing is likely to encourage men to do their stint of it Rhonda. If men and women all felt able to spend a year or two at home, many parents and children would benefit and career damage would be minimal for any of them.

None of this really applies to my current circs but it did when I had preschoolers.

I had/have no desire to spend a year or two at home.

Oh and another thing Rhonda - women used to be brought up with the Madonna/Caregiver role, but all the women I know including myself, were brought up to believe that staying at home and putting aside your career if you want to, was a bad thing to never be considered. It has taken me a long time to realise that feminists fought for CHOICE, not fear.

By stating that someone should always be financially independent, that precludes my choice to be a SAHM. So how exactly is that equality?

It was a broad fears dino and it touches both sides of the debate.

Scottish

I'm only being a bit vague because it is nobody else's business, I have told you what I am happy to tell you, I'm sure that gives you an idea.

Why should it preclude your choice though? Because then firstly it isn't really a choice as much as a sacrifice, and it means for many there still isn't a choice there at all.

We are arguing from an admittedly privileged position all round, one which not everyone shares.

Aye fair enough potato,but if you make big brash you're not dependent statement
Expect a query
ESP if you follow up with vagueness

In this debate, I find myself not scared but confused. Being a SAHM is something I never thought I would be, yet I love it, don't feel less of a person for doing it, fully intend to retrain whilst at one, and truly do not feel one iota of worry about being dependent on my husband. I honestly think he would poo himself more if we split up, because I pretty much run our lives. He might have more cash, but he'd never have a clue where the paperwork relating to it was, heh heh.

Am I meant to be worried? What am I missing?

Well as interesting as this is, I'm off now to make myself presentable for when dh comes in from working, for my benefit iyswim.
laters, everyone.

Oh, and I don't feel I'm sacrificing anything being a SAHM. I honestly don't. What am I sacrificing?

Dino, have you realised I am not talking about you personally and specifically?

It's all subjective,if you dont feel compromised then no one can tell you otherwise
It's risky to have no job,to be dependent on another adult,no back up
But it's your choice,and if it's informed and you weigh up risks then fair enough

Yes. But you are talking about SAHMs. I am one. Therefore, you are talking about me. And I don't know what to be scared about, fearful of, or what sacrifice I am making. I am hopeful someone (you if you like, since those are your words) will enlighten me.

Scottish - maybe we don't feel compromised because we're not?

Perhaps I should feel bad that I don't get the wondrous opportunity to go to work and deal with office politics, more work for no extra pay, not being able to help my patients the way I want to.

As I said if you don't feel compromised fair enough

That's a bit like using the logic, all weenies are blue therefore all blue items are weenies (ie no logic at all)

Just because one thing is the truth for you doesn't mean it's Thr same for all, most, or even some other people in similar circumstances. However you said quite clearly you could not be financially independent and a stank mum which means you sacrificed financial independence, that may not be a sacrifice some women are able to make or should make and therefore there is no real choice there.

And don't ask what a weenie is because I just made the word up to make the logic point.

Fid that's a good point about not encouraging men, however I'm very sure that neither does marginalising them as parents which is also happening hugely, I do think it would be useful to debate how it could be encouraged - I'm also optimistic it's moving in the right direction for most people.

I am so tired of people trying to claim that they work the hardest/have the toughest life/do the most parenting based on a group identification.
"I have a disabled child, so I have the hardest job"
"I'm a lone parent, so I have it hardest"
"I'm a SAHM, so I do the most hands-on parenting"

No, maybe you don't. There are so many factors that go into it. Money, family support, physical health, personal capabilities, number of children, spousal support, nature of job, age of children, age of parent, other responsibilities like aging parents or other dependents, household standards, temperament of children, and did I mention money?

So please - if you identify yourself and make a claim based on your label - shut up. :) You're being awful.

Oh, and OP, YABU, because not everyone has the same experience as you. News flash.