To think sexism in the UK is not as bad as the UN rep says it is?

[AICM]

Yes I know you don’t have to look far to find many examples of sexism in the UK and yes the reaction of some men to this report has been awful but as I live my daily life I don’t feel as though I’m being oppressed and kept in my place by a patriarchy. I live the life I want, my OH does half (if I’m honest more than half of all domestic chores) my boss (a male) treats me with respect and my co-workers (who are nearly all male) treat me as an equal and don’t make any sexist comments.

Am I lucky or is my experience fairly common?

Whichever way you want to dress it up and which semantics you want to employ it's ludicrous and tedious.

Laughable in reality.

I think there's almost as much sexism against men as there is against women, it just works in different ways. I know I'd rather choose to be the sex that enables me to SAH or work part time more easily than be the sex that has the most chance of getting a place in the cabinet.

What a load of nonsense.
You do realise that the 'privilege' of being a SAHP or working part-time means that over their lifetime women earn roughly £400,000 less than men? It doesn't take much imagination to reflect on what that actually means in terms of impact - an impact that is not only felt during a woman's working life, but also in retirement.

You do realise, too, that most sexual assaults are men against women? That most domestic violence is targeted at women?

But, yeah, there's 'almost as much sexism against men...'

The report has been taken out of context, it did not say the UK was the most sexist

I live in South Africa with a high level of crime and abuse directed to women, but the sexism I have faced here is no different than what I have seen in the UK, the difference has been the economic power of women in UK.

It's disconcerting that with the economic power that women have in UK, the level of internalised sexism is no different.

Sexism is sexism and on what basis can misogyny be better than other misogyny

I don't agree with that at all Woo, sorry.

Sexual assault, rape, FGM, lower wages, care givers, pornification of society, % of representatives in parliament and other positions of power - I could go on. Sexism helps uphold patriarchal male privilege, which hurts women and some men, but ultimately benefits men.

Hmm, I do stay at home and look after my children. The government don't pay me for it. My husband earns money for our entire family. But that aside, why am I at home? I'm at home because it is impossible for me, where I live, to earn enough to pay for childcare to allow me to go to work and have a career that I enjoy too. I'm at home because my earnings went down year on year after I had my first child, whereas my husband's went up. Why did they go down? Because my working hours in my previous job were too long to allow me to get childcare to cover them, so I had to resign. Then I had to take a more poorly paid job on a temp contract. Then it ended and I had to take another temp contract and another pay cut. Etc etc. Whilst I am fairly happy on a day to day basis, I think I would be happier still if I could earn a decent salary in a job that I enjoyed, the way my husband can. He wouldn't want to be at home the way I am. And he doesn't particularly want me at home either, he thinks I can do better, but for the moment we're stuck.

I believe the modern workplace is still a pretty unforgiving place for anyone with outside responsibilities, which in reality is mostly women.

You have to look at the percentage of applicants, regarding employment.
Where I work, the shopfloor is 100% male, the office is predominantly female. Women just don't apply for the shopfloor jobs and vice versa with the office.

sashh

Do you shave/wax/remove any body hair? Why do you think that is?
Men shave their beards and Im sure a growing number of men also shave there pubic hair so its hardly just women who shave. Nothing to do with sexism but rather comfort or just personal preference.

Have you ever attempted to watch sport featuring women outside the Olympics on a TV channel that is publicly funded?
There is plenty of womens sport on sky, netball is shown on most weekdays as is WTA tennis on europort. Womens football season is starting today on BT sport. There was also the table tennis world championships on sky recently which was mixed and the women dominated.

Do you know that the England women won the ashes? Or that the women's football team won the world cup in the 1980s? Twice?
Agree with this, the womens cricket team hardly get any publicity even though there much better than the men.

I think sexism is very visible in the UK which is what the UN rep said.

Yes it may be less damaging than in many places, but the very fact that you started your OP with "I know you don’t have to look far to find many examples of sexism in the UK" shows just how prevalent overt sexism is.

That being said, I think that hidden sexism can be more damaging in that it creates barriers that you cannot challenge.

So in conclusion the UK - easily visible sexism, problems caused by sexism, but potentially less problems than in other places.

I think the UN should start with the countries where women are forced into marriage, suffer FGM and so on. How very dare they point the finger at the UK.

UN representative doesn't like the British, water stays wet, fire stays hot, world keeps turning.

I don't want 'some' equality, I don't want 'mostly' equality, I want equality. Full stop, no qualifiers. I don't have it, as a woman in the UK. I might have more than a woman from another culture, but I still don't have unqualified equality. The UN can see it, I can see it, because it's really real and truly true.

Can I also say, sexism hurts men too. So just because something is damaging to men rather than women doesn't mean sexism doesn't exist.

In fact, this "stiff upper lip" "men shouldn't cry" sexism is far more prevalent in the UK than in most European countries where it's considered manly to be passionate about a subject, so actually sexism is more damaging because it's affecting both genders.

Take, for example, the situation of men, women and raising children whilst working. The very widely held assumption is that women are going to look after the children, taking maternity leave, taking time off when children are sick, prioritise childcare over their careers while men carry on exactly as before. This damages both parents in different ways.

For women it can prevent them getting jobs or promotions at that "fertile stage" (basically if you're between 18 and the menopause you're in trouble), they get mummytracked whilst they've had children, sidelined and kept off important projects because they're considered less reliable.

For men, it becomes a massive taboo to expect a long paternity leave meaning many men don't take it even when they want to, they are expected to focus on work and not change how they respond despite a massive change in lifestyle and priorities, placing an emphasis on spending time with your child, bonding etc is seen as unmanly and so must be discouraged at least within a work setting, when you want a decent work-life balance you're passed over for promotion for a man who "has his priorities sorted" because he doesn't actually take responsibility for his children.

And that is how sexism hurts everyone.

I'm a SAHM - we would be better off if I went to work and Dh and I together earned the same amount of household income. The government doesn't pay us anything (except his paternity pay when we had children).
Yes there is Sexism in the UK - there is certainly worse sexism in Afghanistan or Nigeria.
There is also sexism in a lot of countries - even when women are doing quite well - the pressure on women in France to stay slim seems oppressive to me.
There are countries that are far less sexist.

There are lots of things about British society I don't like - casual sexism is one, the openly foul mouthed behaviour I heard at a theme park earlier this week is another (if we moved to the US - I would have to ensure my children realised that they would have to be far more careful, what is mild over here would be shocking there).

yabu. who gives up carreer for kids? 85% women.

is the role of bringing up the future taxpayer recognised? no.

I think the UN should start with the countries where women are forced into marriage, suffer FGM and so on. How very dare they point the finger at the UK

was that meant to be ironic? because - even though they are illegal - those things still happen to British girls.

@MadamBatShit Can you give an example of 'sexism in the police'?

Yes hotfuzzra,
Rochdale grooming scandal, the women who got into relationships including children being born with undercover policemen, women called slag by police offers after reporting domestic violence, ....

I think the trouble with sexism in the UK is that because legally we have achieved equality, we think that a few sexist dinosaurs making jokes at women's expense or denying the occasional promotion is all there is to it. We are legally entitled to the same rights as (if not more than) men therefore we are equal.

Except we're not.

The trouble is that those sexist jokes, the magazine articles about a female celebrity's cellulite, the focus on the female politician's clothing rather than her policies, the propaganda war against single mothers being far stronger than the propaganda war against feckless fathers, the fact that talking about the childcare still concentrates on mothers instead of parents... All of these things create a world in which women remain objectified much more so than men and in which children remain the mother's primary responsibility rather than the father's. And those trends result in a significant economic disparity between the sexes. And since your life's 'outcomes' are influenced by your economic status more so than any other single factor, that matters.

I for one never realised how sexist the world was until I had children and became a single parent. Until that point I had a great (male) boss, benefitted from a wonderful education, had what I thought were good and respectful men only in my life. Then I realised that just one man - my X - had the power to change everything for me. He could abdicate all responsibility - financial and practical - with barely an acknowledgement from society at large, much less any real judgement, while I had to suck up the effect on my career and wallet and would have suffered huge social stigma had I abdicated my responsibilities in the same way.

Yes of course men can be the sahp... But that would be stupid when they're usually the higher earners! I'm always amazed by how few women make the rules in Britain, compared to say Ireland! It's just mind boggling!

Regarding the Rochdale grooming, women in the community were referring to those girls as slags. I know councillors and support workers who were/are on the case.

Thanks madam I understand where you're coming from now.
However, it is dangerous to label all police as sexist when it is a handful of individuals.
There are no policies of 'So you're an undercover officer: sleeping with women, a how to guide' and two coppers calling a woman a slag doesn't make all police sexist.
Otherwise all Muslims are terrorists and all DJs are paedophiles.

its still pretty sexist in the City/Canary Wharf in my recent experience - not as overt as in the seventies and eighties I guess but pretty insidious and damaging nonetheless.

all depends on the people you come across I guess and whether you're lucky enough to work with decent people. there are still a lot of complete and utter arseholes out there.

I am well aware of the generalisation fallacy but I do believe there is still a culture of institutionalised sexism in the police force. Sure, there can be officers that do a good job but that doesn't make the whole police force feminist.

treacle:
"Because my working hours in my previous job were too long to allow me to get childcare to cover them, so I had to resign".
Why were you in that position as not your husband though in the first place? Why were you paying for child care and not him? Why did his career come above yours? Was that due to sexism?

Poundingthestreets - quite!